The Power of Storytelling at Any Age

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It might have been the first time that you were told you couldn't do something and you said,

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"Oh, yes, I can."

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Or you might have stepped in as an advocate for someone.

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Or you might have seen generational differences in your family that is a young kid.

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You don't pay attention to.

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And then suddenly you realize, wow, the world I live in is different than the world.

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Whatever it is, it could be any kind of theme.

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But individual, smaller stories, anecdotes, this contains huge universal wisdom.

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So rather than trying to write the history of the world, capture those emotionally charged,

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positive or negative, emotionally charged, meaningful moments of story.

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They have something to teach you about you and your world.

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[Music]

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And now the podcast we're together, we discuss proactive aging on your terms,

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connecting to the professional advice of our special guests,

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while creating better days throughout the aging process.

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Now here's your host, Mark Turnbull.

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Hello everyone and welcome back to another lively discussion on aging today.

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We are the podcast where together we're exploring the many options to aging on your terms.

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You can find aging today and our past nine years of programming on our website.

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All you got to do is go to agingtoday.us.

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And then I want to say thank you for all of you that have been following over the last nine

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years.

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It's been a privilege to walk beside you and thank you for walking beside us as well.

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Well as you know this is a podcast about aging and we always say that if you're not too busy

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being born, you're too busy aging.

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And we're going to be addressing the big question is when you do get to that place where

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you've aged and you're at that place of retirement, what do you do with all of the vast

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knowledge and wisdom in your retirement?

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And I think it's so important to capture that and who better to capture that than a person

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that is great in storytelling.

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And so we've invited many of you already know she's a she's a past friend of the program

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and she's been on aging today.

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It's Patricia, Chris, fully and she's a New York Times best selling author and she's a mystery

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novelist and a woman full of energy, knowledge and wisdom.

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Patricia, welcome back to aging today.

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Thank you so much.

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I've been looking forward to this.

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Yeah.

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Well, as usual, we're looking forward to having the conversation with you because you're

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engaging.

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You have such a vast depth in your pool of knowledge and wisdom.

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And so let's let's begin to draw up on that.

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But for those that have not had a chance to meet you, we always start out with what's in your

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story.

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What Patricia is in your story?

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What has led you to this place in your life where you've become a New York Times best

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selling author, a mystery novelist and on and on and goes and more?

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Okay.

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Well, for me, it's my writing journey has been very consistent.

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It's been the dream of my heart since I was a young child.

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I tell this story when I was seven years old, I had this big idea in my head and I took

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a pencil and a piece of paper and I wrote down this huge epic that had been swirling in

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my brain and I got four whole sentences down.

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Clearly at the age of seven, I didn't quite understand what it meant to capture an entire

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story like an an 80,000 word novel like my new one that's coming out this fall.

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The journey of the writer is taking an idea, a concept, a story, a conflict, a coming together,

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whatever that is and making the story out of it because from time in memorial storytelling

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is how we humans defined who we are, what matters to us, what we believe in and where we're

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going.

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We think of the myths, we think of sacred story, we think of indigenous stories, all these

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pieces of wisdom come together and the same applies in our own lives.

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We have our story.

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So for me, my story began as a young child discovering I loved to write through school,

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through this that became a news journalist at the local paper when I was in college.

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It is an intern through becoming a business journalist in New York and then Chicago, then

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becoming a communications consultant, which is still my day job.

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I work with large companies across the US helping to define and convey and articulate

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their stories.

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And then in my personal creative world, writing short stories, having my Anita Harbor mystery

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series, again, stories.

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To whether it's fact or fiction, it's something I've made up or something I'm reflecting

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on, story contains my truth and I think this is valuable for anyone to look at their story

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to say, what is my truth?

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How have I explored it and expressed it and maybe how has my perception of it changed over

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the years?

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That's wisdom.

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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And I think we all admire great storytellers and we all admire people that can put the

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pen to the paper and begin to tell that story and so that it's memorable, it's exciting,

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it's riveting, it's engaging.

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What are some of the things that you've picked up over your life story of being a writer

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and learning the craft of what it takes to be that engaging?

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Well, I think there's two parts.

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There's learning the craft and practicing the craft.

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The second one is the most important.

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So we're going to start with the second one, which is practicing the craft.

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If you want to write, you got to write.

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And we all are not very good at it in the beginning.

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We don't know what we don't know and then we do know what we don't know and that's

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even more than we thought.

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So it's whether it's joining a writing group or taking a class at your community writer studio,

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many cities have these.

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Your library may have a writing club or you might be able to get together with a few friends

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and say, hey, let's trade pieces and give each other feedback and encouragement.

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Just keep writing.

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And as you do, you'll see where you're comfortable, where you struggle, where somebody gives you

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feedback, like, wow, you went from eye to weed to they, you know, first, but whatever it is.

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That's craft that you can learn.

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Once you know what you don't know, then you can explore.

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I took it to the end degree.

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I went back to school at 52 and got a master's in fine arts from Northwestern and creative

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writing.

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It's a workshop or something as formal as an MFA program.

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Keep learning and engages your intellect.

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It keeps you fresh, puts you in community with others and you're learning a craft and then

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you practice, practice, practice, practice.

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I love the fact that you did this at the age of 52.

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And I mean, what was going through your mind?

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I mean, I can think of all kinds of excuses at the age of 52, why you shouldn't be doing

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this, listening to all of the naysayers out there that are saying, you shouldn't be doing

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this and you should be retiring or at least thinking about retiring.

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You should be building a nest egg.

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You should be building your financial empire so you can retire.

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And yet here you wander off at the age of 52 and you take it.

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It was a program.

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I worked all day and I went to school at night, but here's the thing.

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All those things are important.

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We all have to work.

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We have to say we might be helping younger people in our lives, say for there, we may have

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charities, we support or are volunteering that's also important in our own careers and our

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businesses and whatever.

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So the answer is yes, all of the above.

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So what I found when I went decided to go into the MFA, what propelled me was to reach my

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goal of becoming a novelist.

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I had written short stories.

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I'd been published.

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I even won a couple of minor awards for my short stories.

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I wanted to get to that long form fiction, that life long goal.

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And I said, my life long goal is worth it.

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And I'm going to make this investment in myself.

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For me personally, any kind of education at any age is so important for our minds, for

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our to see the world to become critical thinkers and creative expressors.

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Education is fantastic.

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So I knew I was going into this for personal development, not because I was going to go

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off and make a scamillion dollars by selling my movie script.

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No, I knew when I was after for craft practice and community.

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It didn't take away from those other things like working and saving, but I had to prioritize

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other things.

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I had to say, what can I give up?

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You know what I gave up?

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I gave up a lot of time wasteers like I didn't talk on the telephone as much.

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I didn't watch filler television, right?

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Like listen, you want to watch a good streaming?

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I can, that's your destination.

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Go for it.

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I streamlined my life, still worked full time, still did other things and was able to complete

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this because I found I had both time and energy.

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Yeah.

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More than I realized and that in itself was quite, quite a lesson.

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What would be the difference in a Patricia, Chrisophaly as a writer in your 20s as opposed

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to 52?

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What?

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Or now older than 52, but we're not going to put a number on that.

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Yeah, what?

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Just say it's a few years.

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But I think that, you know, here's my point.

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My point is that, yeah, all of the experiences that happen in our younger

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years are setting the table for something fantastic in our later years.

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And so many of us in our later years dismiss everything that went on in the earlier years

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and saying, well, I'm done.

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I'm no longer useful to society.

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And yet at the same time, I'm going, wait a minute.

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This is the time when you should be bringing all of the nuggets of truth and wisdom to the

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table to share with the rest of us to build up the younger generations.

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And that's what you're doing.

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Well, so a couple things.

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The difference for me personally in 20s, to 50 and beyond was the fact of, I had gained

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a confidence in myself.

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You know, for so many of us when we're in our 20s, it's a time of discovery.

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But it's also a time of feeling incredibly vulnerable and wondering, am I good enough,

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am I worth enough, am I this enough, and that enough, and all that can really be an impediment

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to expression.

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In addition, there are some of my fondest pieces that I wrote in my 20s that express someone

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seeing the world in a new way and a developing way who goes from, I saw myself as this.

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And now I'm that.

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I did an essay on the first time I ever went to the developing world.

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I was in West Africa.

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And it's an essay I love and I was 20 something when I wrote it.

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And it was so vulnerable because I realized how scared I was by being outside a comfort zone.

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Now I've had that experience many times more now, but capturing it then was helpful.

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So conversely, we go to the other end of the timeline and we think of now I have so much

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more to say, I can reflect on my own experiences back then through this wisdom of where I ended

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up.

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And as a fiction writer, I can also create a character in the case of my protagonist Gabriela,

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she's 44 years younger than I am.

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So I mean she and I might listen to different music, she and I might have different experiences

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with what the technology she uses now or what I used in my 40s.

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But I know what it was like to be a single mom then and she was.

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She is then.

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I know what it's like to be in a relationship later as she goes through and I went through

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25 years ago.

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All these things add my ability to create an empathetic character.

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So whether it's fiction and we're looking back or it's memoir and we're making sense

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of our lives or we're looking at now, what do I have to say?

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It's about having a body of knowledge about the world, about our view of the world, about

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our time stamp in the world, certain events we read or experienced or felt in our bodies

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or our communities.

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And it's all very valuable.

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Each and our own way, we are witnesses to a collective history.

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Maybe I grew up rural and it wasn't exactly, you know, the crossroads of dramatic change.

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But even there as I look back on my early experiences, I can see the through line of

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change and what it means to be a person of this world and a member of society.

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So wherever you are, grab your story, look back with empathy and understanding and share

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now, not with the fact that, oh, I earned this place, but we're learning from each other's

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stories because we need to be in tune with those younger emerging stories as well.

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Absolutely.

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And one of the things that I find interesting in life is when I talk to people and I talk

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to people about life is a story and not only is life a story, but your story is another

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story inside of that bigger story of life.

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How do you convey that to people?

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How do you take, in other words, I know you do it through your books, but when you're talking

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to people, how do you express that?

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Well, it's interesting because one of the things I love to do is I love to teach and coach

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other writers is something I kind of do on the side.

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And there's an organization that's shout out to them out here in Eugene, Oregon called

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Word Crafters.

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And I have been one of their instructors, you know, for a weekend conference or something.

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And here's what I like to say, whether it's something we've made up or it's something

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that we're exploring like a memory or some combination.

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Our stories, writ small, reflect a much bigger world.

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So one of the things I say to people is if you've got a memory that just pushes on you

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and it just picks your brain, remember me, remember me, it's got something to tell you.

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Now it might be, I don't know, a memory of going to the county fair or it might be,

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you know, something that happened at school.

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It might be this little, perfect little crystal of an experience.

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But if you poke at it a little bit and say, why is this so important?

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Why was this so poignant or why did I have all this emotion around it?

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It reflects the bigger world.

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It might have been the first time that you were told you couldn't do something and you

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said, oh yes, I can.

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Or you might have stepped in as an advocate for someone or you might have seen generational

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differences in your family that is a young kid, you don't pay attention to.

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And then suddenly you realize, wow, the world I live in is different than the world, whatever

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it is.

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It could be any kind of theme, but individual, smaller stories, anecdotes.

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This contains huge universal wisdom.

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So rather than trying to write the history of the world, capture those emotionally charged,

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positive or negative, emotionally charged, meaningful moments of story.

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They have something to teach you about you and your world.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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That teaching and the knowledge that you're passing on through your writing is to enhance

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and lift up other people's lives and building morale, building inspiration to maybe I can

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capture some of the stories I think about my grandparents.

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And I used to sit around the breakfast table as a kid and listen to the stories that my

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grandfather would share if his experiences in the logging camps.

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Oh, whole another world.

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He used to say, Mark, today they talk about the good old days.

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Let me tell you firsthand, there was nothing good about the good old days.

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And from his perspective, he grew up at the age of 12 in a logging camp.

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And he would go into these, because his dad died of a heart attack, he had to help his mom

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make ends meet.

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So he went to work in a logging camp, cutting wood to keep the stoves fired up so that when

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the men came in from the woods, they would take off their clothes and then you got all these

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wet clothes that are drying in these tents and then they would, they'd be sleeping in

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these bunks and they didn't have mattresses so they would sleep on fur bows and then the

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bed bugs would get in there.

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Then they'd have to soak everything and caracene.

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He goes, "Trust me, there was nothing good about the good old days."

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Those are, that's not a romantic story.

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But the story was amazing.

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It was riveting.

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It was taking and transporting me back into time of what it was really like to live in that

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kind of an environment and how would I respond?

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How would I adapt and you just do?

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It's part of life.

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And so another way of looking at that is to say, what I admire was this 12 year old who

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just did what had to be done, a sense of loyalty, a sense of responsibility and a sense and

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a resilience.

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So part of that could be, well, gee, I'm very grateful so it inspires gratitude in us, right?

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Number two, it's also a conviction that your grandfather and your parents probably had

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of like, "I don't want my kids to have to go through this."

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Right?

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Thank you.

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Our dream is parents as we want to make things easier and better for the next generation

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to not have to struggle and face such hardships.

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But at the same time to share the stories that explain what it's like to be resilient.

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So whether we're facing a pandemic or the incursion of technology that feels very frightening

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and unsettling, we know that is humans when we converse about our experiences, when we

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share our feelings, when we reach into emotional reserves, we find strength and resilience and

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an ability to stand up for ourselves and others in a way to advocate that we say, "Well, shoot,

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that's what grandma and grandpa were doing during the Depression."

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That's what mom and dad were talking about.

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It's in our DNA.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'm also thinking about how you've got all these stories that have been collected by all

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these great individual lives.

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And as you know, this is a podcast about the aging process.

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As we age, if you're not too busy being born, you're too busy aging and you're too busy collecting

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stories.

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Then you get to that place in your life when they say, "Okay, it's time for you to retire."

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My biggest thing about retirement is don't retire and just do nothing.

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And find some outlet, find some way to continue to tell your story to the rest of the world.

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And sometimes that can be done through writing.

295
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:23,360
Yes.

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Tell us a little bit about what you're doing to encourage and inspire those of us that are

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the boomers that are getting ready to retire to be able to capture your stories on paper.

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And maybe there's a novel in there someplace.

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Who knows?

300
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,200
That's exactly right.

301
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:50,360
So number first thing I say is, I hope my example is, you know, some people, you know, their

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life's journey is different.

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They get published very young.

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They get the book deal and their 30s and off they go.

305
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You know, my path went nonfiction first because I was a journalist.

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I had my first book out at 39 and then books in my 40s, etc.

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And fiction waited for me until I had a much different age.

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You know, that was my path.

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So number one, writing knows no age.

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It's just right, your story.

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To give yourself permission, I would have, would I have liked to have, I had my writing

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journey be different sooner, faster?

313
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Sometimes I say, well, yeah, but I go, well, wait a minute.

314
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There are certain aspects to my writing now.

315
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For example, in mysteries and creating small town characters that aren't just facing usual

316
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mystery, but there are a lot of existential questions about being an other, about belonging,

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about what community that takes some experience.

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So first of all, own the fact that you've got something to say that you want to explore.

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Don't worry about the output as much as the input when you begin.

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I have memories, I have thoughts, I have experiences and I want to just start to write them down.

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Number two, I also want to look at how I get motivated.

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Maybe it's a, a, a, a class, a writing group, a presentation at your library, ask your librarians,

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hey, I want to start doing this. You know of a group, chances are they know that.

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And then begin to talk to other folks that you know who are doing the same thing.

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Keep each other accountable.

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00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:47,640
Hey, I'm going to write five pages this week or two paid, whatever, what are you going

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to do?

328
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Create community because it doesn't matter where it goes.

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In fact, I would say if you try to say, oh, well, this novel and this novel hit the best

330
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seller list.

331
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So I need to write this and it needs to be sci fi and you're like, no, maybe that's not

332
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:05,960
you.

333
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,560
Look at your input.

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Worry about that first.

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Find community, find a class or a group and just begin.

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It is so rewarding.

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Over time, you know, the output will find its way.

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And it doesn't necessarily have to end in a novel.

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00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:33,520
It doesn't necessarily have to, it could be just writing down your memoirs for your family

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to carry on.

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00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:43,400
And there's so many forms and ways to be able to capture that in paper on a book form

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that they're going on in the world today.

343
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,200
And there's more.

344
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,200
Yeah.

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00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,480
So yes, you could self publish a memoir and give it to your three kids and your two nephews

346
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,480
or four nieces in the neighbors, okay?

347
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:55,480
Yeah.

348
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,960
Or, you know, you could catch the brass ring and then out it goes and you've got this thing.

349
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:06,840
But there's also blogs and websites that you might go to that are, for example, there's

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one called 60 spelled out, sci x, dy, a, and d, me, 60 and me.

351
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,760
It's for women over the age of 60.

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They're always looking for contributors and a lot of it is about advice or this or that.

353
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,160
There are a ton of websites blogs.

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You might belong to a community organization that has a blog and you're like, well, is a volunteer

355
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:33,720
who does this and that.

356
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,400
I have a story to share.

357
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So there are many little outlets where if you have a story or an experience or some advice

358
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:48,840
can find an avenue into the world that's between, you know, making, you know, the three

359
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:54,400
kids read your book and, um, and having, you know, an international book tour.

360
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,680
A lot of things in between, but it starts with input.

361
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,600
My, what do I have to put into my story machine?

362
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,600
Yeah.

363
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:04,600
Right.

364
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:05,600
Right.

365
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:06,600
And how can I stay motivated?

366
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It is not selfish.

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00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,680
It is not a waste of time.

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It is not a flight of fancy.

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It is exploration.

370
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:23,960
It is just as important as any other kind of meditation or mindfulness or, uh, introspection

371
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:32,560
that you might engage in because stories allow us to explore the world and our place in

372
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:33,560
it.

373
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:34,560
Yeah.

374
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:35,560
Absolutely.

375
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,160
How do you see aging in the creative expression?

376
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,160
Okay.

377
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:45,000
So I was thinking about this getting ready for today's conversation and I have to say, I

378
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,720
did have this feeling of like, ooh, aging.

379
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,720
It's one of those words, because there can be a negative connotation, right?

380
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:58,360
You know, I put on all my creams at night to reverse the aging process.

381
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:03,000
My hair shouldn't be this brown, okay?

382
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:13,200
So we have this, but aging, think of the maturing of, um, of a crop of a stand of beautiful

383
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,800
trees.

384
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:22,720
Think of, you know, the rose bushes that somebody tends year over year until they more profusely

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00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:23,880
bloom.

386
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,920
Think of fine wine or good cheese or whatever else we consume.

387
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:35,280
We know that aging enhances flavor and experience and joy.

388
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:44,760
And aging is not becoming old and outdated and irrelevant and decrepit and what we

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00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,920
think of as right?

390
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,160
It is, it is maturing.

391
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,800
It is developing.

392
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:56,440
It is becoming fuller for creative expression.

393
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:04,000
It is so essential that we don't believe that a life is truncated at a certain age.

394
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,560
Well, you're 37.8 years old and nothing more to say.

395
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:09,560
No.

396
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:17,920
At every age, there is value in whatever story we share or want to explore.

397
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:26,600
So as in a community where we are aging today, we recognize the body of our knowledge and

398
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:35,200
our perspective, born of many decades that allows us to see the world now, a fresh and

399
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:44,680
new to be surprised, to be inspired and also to bring the perspective of, yes, I remember

400
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,320
what this looked like.

401
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,960
I remember what this was like.

402
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,120
I remember what my parents told me.

403
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,920
I remember our generational history.

404
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,920
We bring all of that to our stories.

405
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,080
And as they creatively is a good thing.

406
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,080
Absolutely.

407
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:10,160
And author, your unique approach to your creativity brings another perspective to the table.

408
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,080
Did you know that mysteries are one of the most popular genres of all books?

409
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,280
Patricia Crease of Foley believes one of the reasons for this popularity is that mysteries

410
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:25,680
engage our brains in critical thinking and creative problem solving.

411
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:31,520
This did you know segment was brought to you by this week's guest and sponsored by Royal

412
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,360
Hospice organ.

413
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:41,480
And so talk a little bit about your style, your uniqueness as a mystery novelist and what

414
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:48,320
sets you apart in that mystery genre from other authors.

415
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,280
Well, I love history.

416
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,160
So I am a mystery novelist.

417
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:02,120
My stories are all my Anita Harbor mystery series is all set in the present day.

418
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,520
But what makes me unique is there is always an artifact.

419
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,320
It's fictional, but it's true to life.

420
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,760
That is at the center of the story.

421
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,360
So there's the modern day mystery and being in the kind of the cozy genre, you know, there's

422
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,960
a dead body in the library lawn or floating in the river.

423
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,360
There's some murder and mayhem going on, but there's also an artifact.

424
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:33,280
It is an embodiment of history and my authenticator main character, Gabriela literally has to

425
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,000
figure out what is this and where did this come from, etc.

426
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,080
And the first novel, it was a medieval cross.

427
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:45,840
And the second novel, it's a nautical schematic from the early 19th century and the third

428
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:51,880
novel, which is coming out this fall called the Secrets of the Old Post Cemetery.

429
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:57,300
It is a revolutionary, revolutionary war, era map.

430
00:31:57,300 --> 00:32:04,920
And the reason I bring these artifacts in is I want to literally bring history past into

431
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,680
the present for relevance.

432
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,960
So there is the, it's rare, it's cool.

433
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,400
It's worth a lot of money factor.

434
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,800
But beyond that.

435
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:16,800
Everything we have.

436
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:25,720
Did you know that the RMS Queen Mary designed to carry 2139 passengers in luxury accommodations

437
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:33,840
was used as a troop ship in World War II and carried 16,000 soldiers at a time.

438
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,480
This did you know moment was provided by today's guest and is brought to you by Royal

439
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:47,400
Hostess of Oregon evoking themes that are universal and timeless.

440
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,320
What inspired you though to bring in an artifact that's that's a really interesting approach.

441
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,920
And then how did you go about choosing because you've got three novels, three artifacts,

442
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:58,920
correct?

443
00:32:58,920 --> 00:32:59,920
Yes, absolutely.

444
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:00,920
Okay.

445
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,160
So how did you go about choosing those artifacts?

446
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:08,360
Well, it started with the first novel, which is the Secrets of Onida Harbor.

447
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,800
And the artifact there is a little tiny medieval cross.

448
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,600
And I chose this one because I am obsessed with medieval art.

449
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,120
I've always loved it.

450
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,320
Don't ask me.

451
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:26,480
But it's, you know, from the four, 1800s and the 1500s and it's old and it tends to be

452
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:31,440
rare and have a lot of unusual materials in it.

453
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,320
And I did a ton of research.

454
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,360
In fact, it was the basis of my creative thesis at Northwestern.

455
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,120
So for me choosing the first artifact was pretty easy.

456
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,240
The second novel I wanted to choose something very different.

457
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,240
Okay.

458
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,080
Before you get into the second, I got to ask the question, how did that pop into your head?

459
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,200
Like, okay, might that the center of my mystery novels, I want an artifact.

460
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,880
I mean, did, were you just sitting around the breakfast table one morning and go, oh,

461
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,280
that's the, I mean, ding.

462
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,280
Is something went on?

463
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,760
Is that, yeah, I remember creating this artifact in a, in a previous work when I was, and I

464
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,160
was washing my hair.

465
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:11,160
Okay.

466
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,000
And I, maybe I was stimulating my brain.

467
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,520
So I'm washing my hair going, what am I going to call this thing?

468
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,880
I said, and I was, I was saying words out loud in the shower.

469
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,120
And I said the cross of Sienna.

470
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,400
And I just said it.

471
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:31,920
And I was like, wow, that's cool.

472
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,360
What the heck is it?

473
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,920
And so I invented a thing and a provenance back to Catherine of Sienna.

474
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:43,400
It was a woman before her time, born in like 1340 and, and, and whatever.

475
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,680
I, I, I, I'm either really creative or a little, cuckoo.

476
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,520
But that's how it started.

477
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,440
It just literally popped in my brain as I was washing my hair.

478
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,040
And then I was like, that's my thing.

479
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,040
I love history.

480
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,560
I love going to museums.

481
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:06,980
You know, again, I tapped into my real experience and then creating a character who was an

482
00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:12,880
authenticator and a librarian was, was a natural progression.

483
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,560
So out of my own interest came this.

484
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:22,400
And then for each subsequent novel, the secrets of still waters, chasm, which is environmental.

485
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:28,240
I wanted to look at the deep water lakes in New York State and, and, and, and put a, a

486
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:33,680
storyline around that, therefore coming up with something nautical.

487
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:39,520
I don't want to, I don't want to be, give a spoiler was a natural outgrowth of some research.

488
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:45,520
In the third novel, which is coming out this October, the secrets of the old post cemetery,

489
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:51,520
I knew enough about the history of my hometown on the shores of Lake Ontario, my original

490
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:57,600
hometown, not where I live now, that I said, Oh, there's been three wars fought here.

491
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:03,240
The French and Indian War, the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, it is steeped into this

492
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:04,240
area.

493
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:12,600
I'm going to create an artifact that maps this shoreline that contains a story, not only

494
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:20,480
of its time, but of a bitter, bitter family rivalry, not ours, but I mean, in the fictional,

495
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:21,880
the fictional family.

496
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,200
Yeah, yeah.

497
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,160
And is the map, are these artifacts real?

498
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:27,160
No.

499
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,400
They're, they're, they're, they're, they're just hard to fit.

500
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,720
Yeah, they're true to life.

501
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,480
They're inspired by, but they're, they exist in my head.

502
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,800
There is no cross of Siena, except in my head.

503
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:44,600
And there is no schematic like there is in book two and this thing that I call the traitor's

504
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,840
map does not exist.

505
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:58,480
But there's enough truth and it historically that I can say you will feel like it's not

506
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:04,400
suddenly, you know, this, you know, this amazing glowing diamond came from outer space.

507
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,000
No, no, it came out of history.

508
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,000
Yeah.

509
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:15,840
Talk a little bit about that process of, you know, how you research all of the, you know,

510
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,160
facts to, to build the storyline because you got to make it credible.

511
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,160
Right.

512
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,160
So this is fun.

513
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:28,520
So I'm going to tell you a story because I, again, this is engaging all parts of our joy

514
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,680
and our interests and our, our sense of adventure, right?

515
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,400
So and if you're going to write a story, go do this.

516
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,040
Whether you're looking literally going back to the, the old family farm, which has been

517
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:46,000
sold and you're looking at the fence posts and where they came to, whatever, do it, go

518
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:51,400
into the field, do the research, look at the photo albums, talk to the, it's part of the

519
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,400
joy.

520
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:59,240
So for me, I'm creating a 14th century cross about this tall and about this wide tiny and

521
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:04,240
it has some structural flaws, all of which what did it look like?

522
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,480
Well, has to be gold with jewels.

523
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,080
No, that's a cliche.

524
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,080
Yeah.

525
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:15,000
And then I found out that they didn't start to facet jewels the way we think of in our

526
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,960
jewelry now until about the 1600s.

527
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:24,760
So there went that before a jewel was a cabochon cut flat with a rounded top.

528
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:25,760
How did I know that?

529
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,440
I call, I went to a museum.

530
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:32,480
I spoke to one of their gemologists so there you that you can have that job title apparently

531
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,280
in some places.

532
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:35,360
Explain that to me.

533
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:42,640
But I still wasn't convinced it should be precious metal with, because it feels like everything

534
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:43,840
else.

535
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:50,040
I went to a museum in New York City on a business trip to the Morgan Library and I went through

536
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:57,040
a wonderful display on Emily Dickinson, nothing to do with my novel and I was putting on my

537
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,280
coat on a very cold day and I dropped my gloves.

538
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:08,480
So I bent down, pick up my gloves and when I raised up, I came eye to eye with a display.

539
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:20,240
I had not seen of a chalice from 14th century Siena that was covered in enamel.

540
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:28,840
Something called bass tie enameling, which was perfected in Italy in around the 13th century.

541
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:34,840
And I was like, "Oh, now I know what this looks like.

542
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:41,440
It's this, it's got precious metal, it's got the low relief carving, it's got bass tie enameling.

543
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:49,800
It came to life for me through this research, which it happened because I dropped my gloves

544
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,400
in the lobby of the museum."

545
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,400
Yeah, yeah.

546
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,040
So that's what I mean by engaging in the adventure.

547
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,660
It's a great story for me.

548
00:39:58,660 --> 00:40:04,340
And it also shows that we are living out the mysteries of our own lives.

549
00:40:04,340 --> 00:40:11,980
I'm still trying to picture how they had attached jewelry to whether it was a cross or

550
00:40:11,980 --> 00:40:16,140
whether it was any kind of a chalice, whatever.

551
00:40:16,140 --> 00:40:18,300
So did they use a glue or?

552
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:19,300
No, okay.

553
00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:22,420
So I'm a little confused with that.

554
00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:23,420
Okay.

555
00:40:23,420 --> 00:40:30,500
So, I mean, so we know what it looks like when we set a jewel into a ring, you know, there's

556
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:31,500
that little facet.

557
00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:36,700
So, if you look at some medieval art that's got those cabochon jewels, you know, there's

558
00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:42,020
a depression around it, the jewel set in, and then it's crimped in.

559
00:40:42,020 --> 00:40:44,740
This is something that's enameled.

560
00:40:44,740 --> 00:40:52,420
It looks like little tiles that are like little mini stained glass windows.

561
00:40:52,420 --> 00:40:57,540
So what they would do is they would have their shape like a chalice or cross a pendant or

562
00:40:57,540 --> 00:40:58,540
something.

563
00:40:58,540 --> 00:41:01,620
They would be carving low relief.

564
00:41:01,620 --> 00:41:04,300
So it would be 3D, right?

565
00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:08,500
But it wouldn't, and in that, so you'd have like if you had somebody's face, their nose would

566
00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:11,300
stick out, their eyes would be in, you know, they're hit.

567
00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:20,340
It would be carved in and then they would apply layers of translucent colored enamel that

568
00:41:20,340 --> 00:41:28,980
would make the garment blue and the hair brown and the wrap red.

569
00:41:28,980 --> 00:41:32,020
And it looked like a little stained glass window.

570
00:41:32,020 --> 00:41:40,060
So carving and then layers of enamel that built up this gorgeous image.

571
00:41:40,060 --> 00:41:47,260
I will send you a link to the chalice of St. Michael's Abbey from the Morgan Library

572
00:41:47,260 --> 00:41:50,300
that you can either put in the show notes or at least you yourself.

573
00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:51,300
You'll be able to see this.

574
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:52,780
It will just blow your mind.

575
00:41:52,780 --> 00:41:55,620
Do you have that on your website?

576
00:41:55,620 --> 00:41:59,140
I don't, but they have it on their website and I can share that with you.

577
00:41:59,140 --> 00:42:00,140
Yeah, yeah.

578
00:42:00,140 --> 00:42:01,140
Okay.

579
00:42:01,140 --> 00:42:02,140
All right.

580
00:42:02,140 --> 00:42:03,140
Sounds good.

581
00:42:03,140 --> 00:42:05,340
Well, I mean, these are the kind of the fascinating things behind this story behind the

582
00:42:05,340 --> 00:42:06,740
story.

583
00:42:06,740 --> 00:42:11,020
And this is what we're going to all engage in as we tell our stories.

584
00:42:11,020 --> 00:42:14,900
Now you might say, well, it's fine for her, but my gosh, that exhausts me.

585
00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:22,660
Maybe you want to write about memories of how your mom and your grandma made preserves

586
00:42:22,660 --> 00:42:23,660
every fall.

587
00:42:23,660 --> 00:42:25,580
And that's a childhood memory.

588
00:42:25,580 --> 00:42:28,740
Well, you're going to have to figure out, wait a minute, did they use a canner?

589
00:42:28,740 --> 00:42:29,740
Was it enamel?

590
00:42:29,740 --> 00:42:33,580
You're going to look at pictures and engaging in those things.

591
00:42:33,580 --> 00:42:41,820
When you pick them up or maybe you have that, you realize there's a story in this thing

592
00:42:41,820 --> 00:42:50,940
that I didn't fully appreciate before because touching it, looking at it, I'm recalling

593
00:42:50,940 --> 00:42:56,780
something I heard 40 years ago or longer that I'd forgotten about.

594
00:42:56,780 --> 00:42:57,780
Yeah.

595
00:42:57,780 --> 00:42:58,780
Yeah.

596
00:42:58,780 --> 00:43:05,540
It does it by telling that or digging in and finding out what how this was all good.

597
00:43:05,540 --> 00:43:06,540
Yeah.

598
00:43:06,540 --> 00:43:11,220
And then it opens up a whole new genre inside your mind.

599
00:43:11,220 --> 00:43:14,060
And it also brings forth the smells.

600
00:43:14,060 --> 00:43:16,540
Yes, smell is very evocative.

601
00:43:16,540 --> 00:43:20,060
Yeah, touches and all the things that go into that.

602
00:43:20,060 --> 00:43:22,780
And that's a joy, that discovery.

603
00:43:22,780 --> 00:43:31,220
I think it really increases our mental capacity to take things in because we're becoming mindful

604
00:43:31,220 --> 00:43:33,260
in the moment about a time.

605
00:43:33,260 --> 00:43:36,100
We're not just like, oh, squirrel, I call it squirrel brain.

606
00:43:36,100 --> 00:43:37,780
Oh, I got to do this and I got to go here.

607
00:43:37,780 --> 00:43:41,020
It's like, I am focused on this thing.

608
00:43:41,020 --> 00:43:45,980
I'm listening to someone explain to me how this was used or where it was.

609
00:43:45,980 --> 00:43:47,100
I'm looking at a map.

610
00:43:47,100 --> 00:43:48,580
I'm looking at these photographs.

611
00:43:48,580 --> 00:43:53,740
I'm sharing this and it's going deep, not broad.

612
00:43:53,740 --> 00:43:54,740
Yeah.

613
00:43:54,740 --> 00:43:59,060
I want to get back to your mystery novel that's coming out in October and I don't know how

614
00:43:59,060 --> 00:44:01,940
much you can share without spilling too much.

615
00:44:01,940 --> 00:44:02,940
Talk about it.

616
00:44:02,940 --> 00:44:05,620
But, okay, let's get back to this map.

617
00:44:05,620 --> 00:44:10,180
So this map was a map from what era?

618
00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:12,180
Again, it was this.

619
00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:18,620
So, I was, I have a memory, which might be a false memory of being told something when

620
00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:24,020
I was like in fourth or fifth grade, maybe sixth grade, about somebody created a spine app

621
00:44:24,020 --> 00:44:30,300
for the British of the shoreline that showed the swamps and some areas where the continental

622
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:35,300
army kept their boats and their supplies or whatever.

623
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:40,420
But, and the person who made the map made it purposefully inaccurate.

624
00:44:40,420 --> 00:44:42,540
So, I had this memory.

625
00:44:42,540 --> 00:44:44,140
Well, guess what?

626
00:44:44,140 --> 00:44:46,860
All the research in the world never turned this up.

627
00:44:46,860 --> 00:44:52,060
So, I was like, maybe I made it up, maybe I was, I don't know.

628
00:44:52,060 --> 00:44:59,620
So, but I loved this idea of a map, of a place that is inaccurate for reasons we can't

629
00:44:59,620 --> 00:45:03,740
quite understand, but like notoriously inaccurate.

630
00:45:03,740 --> 00:45:08,940
Like if you looked at it, you'd be like, I can't use this, right?

631
00:45:08,940 --> 00:45:17,620
So I went, I know my, you know, my shoreline, I have fictionalized the area, I give it different

632
00:45:17,620 --> 00:45:18,620
names.

633
00:45:18,620 --> 00:45:24,780
I put a few features on there and then I went to a cartographer.

634
00:45:24,780 --> 00:45:30,300
I met out here in Oregon and I said, if I give you a sketch, could you make a map for

635
00:45:30,300 --> 00:45:31,300
me?

636
00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:33,260
And he said, I would love to.

637
00:45:33,260 --> 00:45:41,820
So, shout out to Dave I'mus, I am U.S. and his I'mus Geo, Geo Graphics is his website and

638
00:45:41,820 --> 00:45:45,580
he made a map for me that I can then put in the book.

639
00:45:45,580 --> 00:45:48,420
So you can see, it's very simple.

640
00:45:48,420 --> 00:45:51,620
It's not exactly, it isn't this gorgeous, beautiful map.

641
00:45:51,620 --> 00:45:57,420
It's a quickly hand sketch map, the way it would have been done back then.

642
00:45:57,420 --> 00:46:07,580
It captures a place, but the inaccuracies tell the story of why someone would change the way

643
00:46:07,580 --> 00:46:08,580
a place looks.

644
00:46:08,580 --> 00:46:14,860
And I don't want to say too much about that, but as Gabriela herself is an authenticator and

645
00:46:14,860 --> 00:46:23,500
is a librarian and as an adjunct in the history department at the local college tells her students,

646
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:27,400
each of these things has a story waiting to be told.

647
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:34,880
It is as if the object itself wants to tell you what it means.

648
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:41,220
And I like that is a story element and I also like it as metaphor for ourselves.

649
00:46:41,220 --> 00:46:44,780
There is more to us than meets the eye.

650
00:46:44,780 --> 00:46:52,720
We have an abundance of experiences and perspectives and rises and falls and all that and in all

651
00:46:52,720 --> 00:47:01,760
of that, what we present to the world is a topography of our lives, but maybe some of the

652
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:07,580
faults and the flaws and the inaccuracies are really what make us interesting.

653
00:47:07,580 --> 00:47:09,260
Excellent.

654
00:47:09,260 --> 00:47:10,660
Well said.

655
00:47:10,660 --> 00:47:19,040
So when someone reads your mystery novels, what do you hope that they will walk away with?

656
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,920
Well, I mean, the obvious is that I hope that they are entertained and I really hope that

657
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:29,800
they see that there is a lot going on in this third one, the secrets of the old post-Semitary.

658
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,960
We got a modern day murder mystery.

659
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:37,440
I mean, we got murderers and we got crime and we got all kinds of stuff going on.

660
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:43,280
And then there is this historic context of something that happened during the revolution

661
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,280
and we have this going on.

662
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,280
So we got a couple of tears.

663
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,560
You got to pay attention.

664
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:52,420
So I hope that that is going on, but there is something about mysteries in general that

665
00:47:52,420 --> 00:47:54,080
I think are very important.

666
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,920
I mean, they are a very popular genre.

667
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:04,760
We all like to be smarter than the, than, or inspector Gammasha and Louise Penny's wonderful

668
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:05,760
novels.

669
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,640
We want to solve the crime along with that person, that expert.

670
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,120
It engages our minds, our critical thinking.

671
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,400
Like we got to connect the dots.

672
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,960
And we know the author is going to send us over here and it is going to be a red herring

673
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,600
and we are going to be off on a tangent and whatever.

674
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:31,120
But we connect the dots and I think this is a wonderful skill in our own lives because

675
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:36,360
there are going to be situations in daily life where we have a problem to solve or we

676
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:43,520
have a mystery to figure out or it may be something grand and exciting or it could be something

677
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:49,840
as I couldn't figure out why the event in my bathroom kept dripping water on my head

678
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,120
every time I call my hair.

679
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,120
Where was the condensation coming from?

680
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:55,680
Not very exciting, right?

681
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:04,120
But we have little, we connect dots and the more we can do that in a story and be entertained,

682
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:11,480
our brain starts to see patterns that tells us even the most difficult problems can be

683
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,500
addressed.

684
00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:20,140
Even the most intractable and tractable mysteries can be solved.

685
00:49:20,140 --> 00:49:22,140
There is a solution.

686
00:49:22,140 --> 00:49:28,900
We just have to stick with it and wait for the next clue and the next one and the next

687
00:49:28,900 --> 00:49:29,900
one.

688
00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:38,620
And in the aging process as our brains become less active, you know, because of what we choose

689
00:49:38,620 --> 00:49:41,420
to do with our lives.

690
00:49:41,420 --> 00:49:47,140
Being can play such a huge role in exactly stimulating the mind in keeping the paths

691
00:49:47,140 --> 00:49:52,860
clear and I love the way you described how we connect the dots and that's exactly what

692
00:49:52,860 --> 00:49:57,460
our brains need to continue to do in our latter years.

693
00:49:57,460 --> 00:49:58,460
Right.

694
00:49:58,460 --> 00:50:03,060
And there might be ways of taking that skill if you're someone who is very good at this problem

695
00:50:03,060 --> 00:50:04,060
solving.

696
00:50:04,060 --> 00:50:10,940
Maybe you get up on a volunteer, a group at a, you know, the local community center or

697
00:50:10,940 --> 00:50:15,340
a park or something that says that we know we have a project here.

698
00:50:15,340 --> 00:50:20,940
We're trying to solve and you can bring your critical thinking and your creativity there

699
00:50:20,940 --> 00:50:23,060
and say, I have life experience.

700
00:50:23,060 --> 00:50:28,540
I have these things and I got to bring the loves puzzles and that can figure things out.

701
00:50:28,540 --> 00:50:30,180
And I want to be part of this team.

702
00:50:30,180 --> 00:50:35,540
And suddenly we find that there's an outlet for all that we have to give.

703
00:50:35,540 --> 00:50:38,300
And you call this the second act.

704
00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:41,860
Third act in my case, hey, I don't know.

705
00:50:41,860 --> 00:50:46,500
I may have an eight act play going on here, but we're not done.

706
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:53,420
You know, yeah, yeah, and the occasion of my 35th birthday a while ago, I called it my dad

707
00:50:53,420 --> 00:51:01,260
who then was, uh, sort of been 76 and I said, Oh, damn, I turned 35 and he said, well, consider

708
00:51:01,260 --> 00:51:04,020
the alternative to not turning 35.

709
00:51:04,020 --> 00:51:05,020
And that's so weird me up.

710
00:51:05,020 --> 00:51:07,660
And so I said to him, you know, he was 41 years older than me.

711
00:51:07,660 --> 00:51:09,820
Like dad, what's the secret?

712
00:51:09,820 --> 00:51:14,260
And my, with my father, it was always the wisdom of what he didn't say as well as what he

713
00:51:14,260 --> 00:51:15,260
did say.

714
00:51:15,260 --> 00:51:18,860
He said, well, if you're alive, you better be living.

715
00:51:18,860 --> 00:51:23,460
And he didn't say anything about this and that, but this very simple thing.

716
00:51:23,460 --> 00:51:27,100
If you are alive, you better be living.

717
00:51:27,100 --> 00:51:30,260
And I think that's great advice for every age.

718
00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:35,660
If you have the gift of life, if you are up and your eyes are open and you're looking at

719
00:51:35,660 --> 00:51:44,900
this world and you are, have a pulse and a way to breathe in and out and you can be present

720
00:51:44,900 --> 00:51:51,780
in your life, then be living for whatever that appears to be for you.

721
00:51:51,780 --> 00:51:54,580
It's a blessing and to go.

722
00:51:54,580 --> 00:51:55,740
Well said.

723
00:51:55,740 --> 00:52:00,020
And I was going to ask the question, you know, what would advice would you give to people

724
00:52:00,020 --> 00:52:02,340
that are looking at that second act?

725
00:52:02,340 --> 00:52:04,100
And I think you answered it right there.

726
00:52:04,100 --> 00:52:10,940
I would quote my dear old dad, if you're alive, you better be living.

727
00:52:10,940 --> 00:52:14,220
What a great place to end our conversation.

728
00:52:14,220 --> 00:52:20,820
And if others that are listening want to learn more about your craft, the way you write

729
00:52:20,820 --> 00:52:25,020
and the novels that you put together, what's your website?

730
00:52:25,020 --> 00:52:26,020
Okay.

731
00:52:26,020 --> 00:52:28,900
Best way to find me and my novels and things.

732
00:52:28,900 --> 00:52:32,900
I mean, first of all, I'm on the usual places wherever they sell books.

733
00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:35,780
Yeah, Barnes and Old dot com and all that good stuff.

734
00:52:35,780 --> 00:52:37,980
Put in my name, they'll pop up.

735
00:52:37,980 --> 00:52:48,380
My website is called faith, F-A-I-T-H, Hope, H-O-P-E and A-N-D, Fiction, F-I-C-T-I-O-N dot com.

736
00:52:48,380 --> 00:52:55,460
The faith part is is not, you know, you know, tenants of the whatever.

737
00:52:55,460 --> 00:53:02,620
It is faith in ourselves, the leap of faith, inspiration, most broadly defined hope.

738
00:53:02,620 --> 00:53:08,580
I hope because without hope, we can't get ourselves out of bed, let alone create anything.

739
00:53:08,580 --> 00:53:10,380
Fiction, why fiction?

740
00:53:10,380 --> 00:53:14,820
Because I believe that even in made up stories, there is deep truth.

741
00:53:14,820 --> 00:53:20,660
So faith, hope, and fiction dot com is where you'll find me, my creative path, more about

742
00:53:20,660 --> 00:53:26,260
my books and more about writers who I engage with and also publish on my website.

743
00:53:26,260 --> 00:53:31,220
And on your website, the one thing I appreciate is that you have a lot of short stories or

744
00:53:31,220 --> 00:53:32,220
a lot of books and stories.

745
00:53:32,220 --> 00:53:35,340
Yeah, stories essays and poems, right?

746
00:53:35,340 --> 00:53:36,340
Exactly.

747
00:53:36,340 --> 00:53:38,820
And there's no, by the way, it's my labor of love.

748
00:53:38,820 --> 00:53:43,100
So even though I publish other people, there's no ads, there's no registration.

749
00:53:43,100 --> 00:53:44,700
You can sign up for my newsletter if you want.

750
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:46,380
And if you don't, you can just come back.

751
00:53:46,380 --> 00:53:53,620
There's no impediment between the story and you because that's one of my values.

752
00:53:53,620 --> 00:53:59,340
I'm blessed to be able to do this and fund it through my other work because I wanted

753
00:53:59,340 --> 00:54:05,380
fake hope and fiction dot com to be an oasis on the web like your wonderful podcast were

754
00:54:05,380 --> 00:54:10,060
information and inspiration is available just for asking.

755
00:54:10,060 --> 00:54:11,060
Okay.

756
00:54:11,060 --> 00:54:18,260
So if somebody is listening right now and they are inspired by your life, your life's

757
00:54:18,260 --> 00:54:25,300
work and the way you write and they want to explore that is there's, is there something

758
00:54:25,300 --> 00:54:30,380
on your website that they can get in contact with you to kind of get some guidance?

759
00:54:30,380 --> 00:54:31,380
Sure.

760
00:54:31,380 --> 00:54:33,620
You know, there's a contact, Trisha page.

761
00:54:33,620 --> 00:54:37,620
Somebody could send me an email through there.

762
00:54:37,620 --> 00:54:40,020
Because you mentioned us something about a 60's.

763
00:54:40,020 --> 00:54:42,460
Whoa, that's 60 in me.

764
00:54:42,460 --> 00:54:46,380
That's just happened to be a place where I've blogged the most.

765
00:54:46,380 --> 00:54:51,620
So number one, if somebody wants to know send me an email through my website, I will reply.

766
00:54:51,620 --> 00:54:53,620
Number two.

767
00:54:53,620 --> 00:55:00,860
It's your local I wherever you live, your local librarian for help finding a writer's group,

768
00:55:00,860 --> 00:55:06,780
a book discussion group, a group where you can physically meet with other people.

769
00:55:06,780 --> 00:55:07,900
I mean, zoom is lovely.

770
00:55:07,900 --> 00:55:08,900
We do this.

771
00:55:08,900 --> 00:55:09,900
We love this.

772
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:10,900
We can be anywhere.

773
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:15,220
But there's something that's special like I teach it word crafters here in Eugene, Oregon.

774
00:55:15,220 --> 00:55:16,220
There is a group.

775
00:55:16,220 --> 00:55:21,020
There's a place where you can go to learn more being community.

776
00:55:21,020 --> 00:55:22,700
Start with your local library.

777
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:24,420
Do you know of a writer's group?

778
00:55:24,420 --> 00:55:26,180
Do you know of a reader's group?

779
00:55:26,180 --> 00:55:32,620
I want to explore more and it'll be the best gift you ever gave yourself.

780
00:55:32,620 --> 00:55:33,620
Amen to that.

781
00:55:33,620 --> 00:55:39,260
And Chris, Patricia, Christopher Lee, thank you so much for being on aging today.

782
00:55:39,260 --> 00:55:43,140
And I can't wait for your new book to come out in October.

783
00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:45,900
Well, I might have to come back then to talk about it.

784
00:55:45,900 --> 00:55:46,900
Yeah.

785
00:55:46,900 --> 00:55:49,140
And we've got to learn all about this map.

786
00:55:49,140 --> 00:55:50,140
Yeah.

787
00:55:50,140 --> 00:55:57,060
You know, it's a big, you know, it's, you're trying to fool the enemy.

788
00:55:57,060 --> 00:56:04,620
So it's a fictionalized map of a map that was a hoax that was a Bruce that was a, yeah, but all

789
00:56:04,620 --> 00:56:09,060
based on some kind of historical context, or probability.

790
00:56:09,060 --> 00:56:10,540
I love that.

791
00:56:10,540 --> 00:56:11,540
Love that.

792
00:56:11,540 --> 00:56:12,540
It's very exciting.

793
00:56:12,540 --> 00:56:13,540
All right.

794
00:56:13,540 --> 00:56:15,900
Well, thanks again once again for being on aging today.

795
00:56:15,900 --> 00:56:16,900
Thank you.

796
00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:17,900
All right.

797
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:18,900
This is Mark Terrible.

798
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:22,500
Listen, I want to thank all of you for tuning into aging today.

799
00:56:22,500 --> 00:56:28,260
We are the podcast where together we're exploring the many options to aging on your terms.

800
00:56:28,260 --> 00:56:35,940
You can join us every Monday when we release a new conversation and on the aging process

801
00:56:35,940 --> 00:56:38,820
and to your favorite podcast channel.

802
00:56:38,820 --> 00:56:42,420
And remember this, we're all in the process of aging.

803
00:56:42,420 --> 00:56:45,820
And as we age, we really are better together.

804
00:56:45,820 --> 00:56:47,100
So stay young at heart.

805
00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:52,140
You make me feel so young.

806
00:56:52,140 --> 00:56:59,860
You make me feel like spring is from and every time I see your face, I'm such a happy

807
00:56:59,860 --> 00:57:04,580
individual, the moment that you speak.

808
00:57:04,580 --> 00:57:07,700
I want to go play hide and see.

809
00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:16,380
I want to go and bounce the moon just like a toy balloon, well, you and I.

810
00:57:16,380 --> 00:57:23,100
I'll just like a bullet, running across the metal.

811
00:57:23,100 --> 00:57:29,700
They can have lots of, forget me night so you made me feel so young.

812
00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:34,940
You made me feel there are songs to be sung, there will still be wrong and wonderful thing

813
00:57:34,940 --> 00:57:36,660
to be fun.

814
00:57:36,660 --> 00:57:39,660
And remember, I'm old and grey.

815
00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:45,020
You've been listening to aging today, where together we explore the options to aging on

816
00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:46,020
your terms.

817
00:57:46,020 --> 00:57:52,060
Join Mark and his guest next week for another lively discussion on proactively aging on your

818
00:57:52,060 --> 00:57:57,540
terms, connecting you to the professional advice of his special guests with the goal of

819
00:57:57,540 --> 00:58:00,860
creating better days throughout the aging process.

820
00:58:00,860 --> 00:58:03,340
Your host has been Mark Turnbull.

821
00:58:03,340 --> 00:58:08,700
Join Mark and his guest every week on aging today, your podcast to exploring your options

822
00:58:08,700 --> 00:58:10,620
for aging on your terms.

823
00:58:10,620 --> 00:58:40,260
I want to go play hide and see what you want to see.