Matthew Snowden: The Power of Conservator and Probate Bonds

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As I've led the Surety practice here for The Mahoney group, I've actually had the opportunity

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to unfortunately be a consumer of my own product.

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My father passed away pretty unexpectedly earlier in the year and I was to be the administrator

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of his estate.

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And every state has its own probate laws, but in our case, we needed to provide a copy

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of his will that stated that I would not have to post a bond as the administrator.

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We could not find an original copy of the will right away when he passed away.

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And so I had to call my friendly probate bond underwriter with whom we do business and

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ask that they would co-sign my obligation to my family to honor my father's intentions,

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dearle fairly and honestly with my fellow heirs and sort out the details of the estate.

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[Music]

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And now the podcast we're together, we discuss proactive aging on your terms, connecting

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to the professional advice of our special guests while creating better days throughout

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the aging process.

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Now here's your host, Mark Turnbull.

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Hello everyone and welcome back to another lively discussion on aging today and I just want

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to remind everybody that we are the podcast where together we explore the many options to

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aging on your terms.

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You can find aging today and yes, we've been on the air for eight years and over 500 episodes

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and just about any topic on the aging related areas we've addressed and we're addressing

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more and more as we move forward into the future.

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So tune in, go to our website, it's www.AgingToday.us.

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It's agingToday.us and then I just want to say thank you for all of the many followers that

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have been tuning in for the past eight years.

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I love you.

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You're done.

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A great job of sending out the message that aging today and we want to address all of the

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questions that people have on aging and they're a myriad of them.

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It's not easy aging and we always say that if you're not too busy being born, you're too

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busy aging.

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So it applies to all of us.

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It does not matter your age.

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So tune in and I just want to say thank you.

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Thank you from the bottom of my heart for supporting us over the past eight years.

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There's nothing easy about being a leader and a manager and there's so many things that

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go into being a great leader and one of those things that about being a leader is that you

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have to wear many hats and one of the couple of things that are the qualities of a great

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leader is that you're all about managing risk and when it comes to managing risk, you're

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acting lawfully, not only that, you're a peacemaker, you're a manager and you have to be ethical

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when it comes to being and if you're ever asked to be an executor and that's what it takes

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to be an executor.

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You've got to manage those risks that are out there and here to guide us down that road

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of managing risk is our guest Matt Snowden.

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You may know Matt from behind the scenes over the past eight years he's been with aging

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today and I just want to say Matt thank you for all the efforts that you've done in making

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this show possible in the past but now in the future looking forward, we get to see your

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face and we're going to talk about your expertise and what we're going to be talking about is

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conservatorship and probate bonds.

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Matt welcome to aging today.

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Mark honored to be here with you.

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Yeah, yeah, it's good to see your face out there in the public and I'm so looking forward

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to our conversation today.

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So Matt, we always start out our episodes as you know with what's in your story and we

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want to know a little bit about you so tell us how you got to be an expert in the insurance

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industry and in particular when it comes to probate, when it comes to bonds and then how

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you can help manage our risk moving forward.

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Sure, thanks Mark, I'd love to.

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I grew up in a small town in Appalachia and made my way to Arizona State where I studied

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finance, spent my career in financial services and left one of the largest banks in the world

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to get into the insurance business which is an unusual statement for someone to say and

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within the insurance business there's this really unique niche called bonding or surety

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and so it's underwritten and issued by insurance companies but it's actually not an insurance

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policy.

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It's a financial guarantee.

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It's to co-sign a promise that somebody made or a surety bond and so given my financial

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background when I got into the insurance business this niche within a niche of helping

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folks navigate.

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And if promise was made, could an insurance company stand beside them or behind them and

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guarantee that promise was fulfilled became a very interesting place for me to spend my

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time.

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Flash forward, I built a company and sold it to one of the largest firms in the country and

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then as I've led the surety practice here for the Mahoney group, I've actually had the

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opportunity to unfortunately be a consumer of my own product.

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My father passed away pretty unexpectedly earlier in the year and I was to be the administrator

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of his estate and every state has its own probate laws but in our case we needed to provide

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a copy of his will that stated that I would not have to post a bond as the administrator.

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We could not find an original copy of the will right away when he passed away and so I

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had to call my friendly probate bond underwriter with whom we do business and ask that they

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would co-sign my obligation to my family to honor my father's intentions, dearle fairly

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and honestly with my fellow heirs and sort out the details of the estate.

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We got through that or I should say we're still in the middle of that but we found the

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original will and so we were able to release that bond after the process had begun but

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had we not found it I'd still be co-signed so to speak by the surety company that felt

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that I was credible and credit worthy enough to stand in that fiduciary position on behalf

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of my father's estate.

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Like I said in my intro is that being a leader, being an executive administrator of a

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business state when you've ever been asked to do that, it is a daunting task and there's

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so many things that you're introduced to that are new and one of those things that oftentimes

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at least it is for me because I'm also the executor to my mom and dad's estate and as I'm

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walking through that myself I'm being introduced to all these terms that I've heard but I really

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never really understood and when you start practicing being the executor and then you see the

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implications to these terms it takes on a whole new meaning.

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It really does and we should probably clarify for everybody we're not attorneys this is

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not legal advice and you should certainly consult an attorney because we're going to talk

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about that later but you do live in a world that for most of us is one or two times in a

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lifetime that you have to navigate the probate process and the duties that are placed upon

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you and having dealt with finances my entire professional life and knowing generally what

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was going on with my father's estate but not all of the details I even found myself at

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times operating out of order and so I had to go get legal counsel of my own to understand

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in this particular case what's the appropriate customary and necessary course of action

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so that a) I'm honoring the intention of the estate and b) I'm not putting my own personal

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financial well being at risk because you find yourself at times if you operate outside of

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what is prescribed in that state under that state's legal hierarchy for state matters or

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trustee matters, fiduciary matters you could find yourself being personally financially

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liable for those decisions that you execute on behalf of the estate and certainly my children

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like Christmas presents and my wife likes to live indoors and so we wouldn't want to find

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me unintentionally making mistakes that cost us any of those important things that we've

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worked hard for.

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Yeah absolutely so let's begin with some definitions of some terms that we're going to be throwing

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out in our conversation today because I really want people to understand the power and the

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impact of understanding what these terms mean so that when you're having a conversation

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it's an intelligent conversation and you don't get mixed up and crossed over because that's

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when you get into trouble.

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Alright so let's start with an executor so well actually let's go back even further.

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A will so okay it's I think it's pretty self explanatory what a will is but I think it's

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important to not only understand what a will is and what's in the will but what happens

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and I know I don't want to go into great detail but if you don't know that you have a will

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then it's a great question so as as a living person we will all eventually pass away and

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that will is the document that's intended to guide what happens to the things that matter

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to us once we're gone and how we'd like them to be handled by those to whom we've entrusted

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them so whether it's children or animals or financial assets or real estate it will prescribe

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who gets what and who's in charge of calling those shots and wrapping up those affairs

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and as a living person that's the time that you can draft that will it can't be drafted

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once you're gone you have to have drafted it it has to meet the state requirements which

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do vary by state which is another great reason to have an attorney involved not us and

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for that to be binding it should say who's going to be in charge do they need to post a bond

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or a surety bond more specifically to administer your estate and ensure their fidelity or faithful

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execution of their duties and then what do they do with your stuff and if you have liabilities

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which you very likely will even if they're small how do those get handled and so that

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will is your governing document for what is to happen with your affairs post mortem.

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Yeah it's the instruction manual it's the what is it was my intent for how things were

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to be distributed so as the executor your job is to follow the instructions in just right

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it's not about what I want it's not about what I like it's about what my father wished

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which fortunately he and I had a great relationship and I had a very good understanding of what

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he would wish but in some cases and you asked it what happens if there's no will there's

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no instruction and then the government gets to make decisions for us and so it's playing

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what happens then so and yeah and I'm assuming there's not there's a lot of people out there

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that don't have a will or they don't know that they whether they have a will or not from

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when somebody passes and you'll find out correct correct so oftentimes when there's not

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a will and let me go back one step an original will so again it may vary by state the state

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in which my father resided it had to be the original will I had a copy I did not have

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the original with his wedding signature on it and that made a big difference and so an

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original copy of the will is presented to the authority could likely be someone within

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the judicial system locally and that person will look at the will and if it exists they

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will appoint the person that's supposed to be the executor now if it's contested that's

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a different matter entirely if it's uncontested hopefully it's as simple as what the will

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instructs but without a will which is very common or within my case as it was with

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out an original will you could be forced as the administrator to be qualified as the

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administrator which is subject to the interpretation of the local authority and then be appointed

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and have to post a bond or the person could die in test date which means that the their

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affairs are really going to be governed by the judicial system and not by their wishes

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because in the absence of a will you are left to the the judicial system to determine

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how your affairs are to be resolved post-mortem and is that where the term probate comes into

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play great question many times the word probate gets used broadly is all things post-mortem

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and so probate bond is the bond that is guaranteeing the faithful execution of the executor

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whoever that may be whether it's a relative or perhaps an attorney or perhaps some officer

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of the court but also the probate process as a verb the probate process itself is where

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the judicial system dictates the terms of the resolution of that person's affairs post-mortem

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yeah yeah and so you used another term that you know people may not be familiar with and

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that is bond what what is a bond in the simplest terms the bond is a co-guarantee of an

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obligation so we have an obligation in this case to a probate process either under a will

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or under probate statute and that bond comes along and bonds itself or guarantees that the

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responsible party will faithfully fiduciary we hear that word a lot will have faithful execution

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of their duties and they'll deal fairly and honestly with everybody involved and so

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the bond underwritten by an insurance company sold by an insurance agent but not an insurance

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product is really a guarantee that if for some reason you failed to act the bond company

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would have to make it right and then they would pursue you individually personally for

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remedy so for example if you made a mistake that cost the estate or an error a hundred thousand

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dollars the bond company if it had to pay that out would not just eat that hundred thousand

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dollars like an insurance policy would in an auto accident they would actually come to

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you personally as a guarantor of that bond and say hey we had to pay this out on your

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behalf we now expect repayment because it is an indemnification not an insurance product

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so two more terms I'm going to get clarified guardian and conservator thank you they're they're

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almost the same so for the purposes of this conversation the guardian or the conservator is the

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person who has the responsibility to act faithfully and in the best interest of award we just

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love definitions around here so award is the person adult or minor who the court has decided

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cannot handle their own financial affairs a minor cannot enter into contracts so by definition

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a minor has to have a conservator however an adult with dementia or an adult who has a brain

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injury or an adult who has some sort of cognitive impairment may not be able to handle their affairs

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appropriately and legally and so a another qualified person steps in and administers their affairs

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on their behalf and they have a duty to handle those affairs not in the best interest of the

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conservator but in the best interest of the ward or the person who is found to be unable to

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handle their own affairs and there's many instances many implications to what you just described

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there and I was thinking of you know maybe some adult children don't live in the same state maybe

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they're living in a different country or maybe they're living across the United States by 3,000 miles away

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and they haven't seen their parent for a very long time they get noticed you know that

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mom, dad have dementia or you know whatever yes and then they learn about this and how then do

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does somebody like that get to be the conservator or the guardian of that person

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in all of these cases I keep coming back to the importance of the attorney not because it's my job

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to keep in attorneys employed but these are really complicated legal matters that vary by state

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and by other documents that might exist to govern someone's affairs what happens is the attorney

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and really in my business it's pretty uncommon to allow someone to enter into a conservatorship

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or a probate matter without the representation of an attorney and having been through it first hand

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I can tell you that that's not just because we like to pay attorneys it's because these are

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really complicated matters that you don't deal with on a daily basis and so what happens is that

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person has some impairment because of that impairment they've been deemed by the judicial system not by

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you and I not by the bond company not by their children but by the judicial system as needing

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to be cared for and have their affairs handled by a third party that third party gets appointed

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through a legal process and needs to be represented by an attorney this is not a good DIY

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path and then that attorney would provide the court order to and their information to the bond

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agent for example myself and we would then understand what is required by the court how much of a

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bond is required perhaps how long like this person live we very likely need medical records to

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understand how long they might be with us because these these are non-cancellable obligations once

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we're in a relationship like this we cannot get out of it until the court themes it out no longer

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necessary and so that legal process tells us what commitment is required we then have to qualify

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that a caretaker as being worthy of a bond guarantee not everyone can qualify personal credit

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personal assets all of those things come into play in deciding whether or not that person can

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actually obtain the required bond and sometimes siblings have to make tough calls about who's the

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person that's the most likely to be able to satisfy the court be able to satisfy the bond company

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and then take care of this person that they care about as a surety practice leader that's your

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titles yes yes so as a surety practice leader when somebody gets into this situation where they

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need a bond yes who contacts you dude is it my responsibility as when I learned that I'm now the

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executor or is it the court's responsibility who puts the parties together yeah let's assume for

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a moment that the executor or the administrator in either case is a loved one they're not a professional

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that's in the business of doing this as a service they're not mandated by the state to do this that

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this is someone who has stepped into this role has the responsible party for someone else

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many times they will be told by their attorney you need to go get a bond

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they might as well have told them to fly to Mars because they've never done a court and they have

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no idea what that means yeah and no it is not a bail bond that gets you out of jail

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this is a completely different solution provided through insurance agencies and not all insurance

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agencies do this so either the newly appointed administrator has a requirement by the court to

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obtain a bond or they know one is coming and they want to make sure that they can get it before they

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before the court orders it their attorney may very likely know who to call so many times the attorney

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will say here you should contact mad at the mahoney group here's his contact information or the

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attorney may initiate contact but my client is ultimately the administrator or the executor

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or the person that has been appointed as custodian depending on the details my client is not the

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attorney it is not the informed person and it is not the deceased not the deceased nor is it the

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state it's the individual that has to post the guarantee that we have to co-sign which is the

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executor exactly that's right would be the exact or administrator because those two

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executor or the administrator depending on the state that is a typically a state dependent

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criteria and we work across all 50 states and so I would hesitate to even begin to tell you what

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each state's specific requirement is and the same is true if it's a living ward so if it's an adult

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or a child either case a minor or an adult that can no longer care for themselves it's the person

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appointed to handle their financial affairs so is it fair to say that there's two types of bonds

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and a bond is basically an insurance marker correct is is that a good way to also describe what a

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bond is it's an insurance not insurance protection is it's not insurance because with insurance

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there's an expectation of loss so there's an expectation that in the event of a claim the insurance

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company will pay the bill and you're not going to pay them back as the client as the insured in our

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business if the bond company has to step in and make a payment even though it says insurance

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company at the top it is not insurance product it's a guarantee and you're expected to repay that

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loss so no it is not an insurance product it's a guarantee it's more like credit even though it's

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not there is no credit no loan going on it is more like credit than it is insurance

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so you're just saying that the person that's the executor is capable of being protected

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we found them to be trustworthy trust worthy okay that's right and and if they're not

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and you have to come to the the estate or the ward because we this all falls under the term of

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probate whether it's a living ward or a deceased person in both cases it falls under the probate umbrella

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our client we are guaranteeing their faithful execution of duties and if they don't our client

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actually owes us back the money and it's the the state or the ward that is being protected by

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this product so the the administrator or the executor again depending on the state

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we're not protecting them we're simply providing a co-guarantee their

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clarification great clarification I thought it was where you were guarantee you're guaranteeing that

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they're validity but if something were to go sideways the executor still is financially responsible

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they're on the hook that's exactly right gotcha gotcha it's a very nuanced world yeah it got kind

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of confusing for me because the Mahoney group is an insurgency and I was thinking that it was

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acting a lot like insurance does where you're protecting me for as the executor all you're doing

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is making sure to let the court system know that I'm I'm valid as the executor you're essentially paying

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me to take not take your side in the event of a disagreement as funny as that sounds yeah that is

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so bizarre okay yeah and this is the complexity of our legal system this is the complexity of you

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know at estate planning why why it you know I get it why you say hey we're not promoting you know

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lawyers so much but we are promoting the protection and a lawyer can give you that kind of protection

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that's right we need their guidance because you're only going to do this hopefully zero maybe once or

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twice in your life and so the last thing you want is to DIY one of the most complicated responsibilities

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you'll ever take on usually in a time of grief and usually people want to act with good intention

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good intention is not always what the law is looking for sometimes there's an expectation that's a

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little different than what you think the good intention might be well I'm glad we got that clarified

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um because I'm also the executor to my mom and dad's estate and my dad is in passway my mom is still

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living but after my dad passed I mean it's amazing how much time I've spent in front of the attorneys

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even though they had a will and it was very well spelled out it was eyes were dotted the tees were

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crossed but everything changes and I would never know have known that the trust would have changed

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you know and then there's all thing kind of new things I've been learning is that they had a trust

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between the two of them and then when one passes then there's a survivor's trust there's a marital

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trust and then there is an exemption trust and it keeps going on and on and on and it's like

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I there's no way I would've been blindsided it's very complicated and yeah and and there's a reason

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we know we're not trying to be difficult but when someone calls and it's not unique to our firm

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and they say we need we need a bond for probate matter or living wards adult miners and adults

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that that requires a custodian it's a very stressful time and we don't like to say it but it's very

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difficult to place a bond with an insurance with a bond company in the absence of legal representation

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because it is so easy to your point to unintentionally find yourself on the wrong side of a document

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or a rule or an understanding and we really do rely on the attorneys to navigate the process

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and we're just there to ensure faithful execution. Did you know that the unexpected death or

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incapacitation of a loved one can require someone to step in and handle their affairs with a financial

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and legal burden to act in their best interest with a personally guaranteed surety bond?

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Advanced planning and knowing in advance who to call and how to navigate the obligation

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will allow you to focus on your loved ones without the delays burdens and distractions of

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challenging questions and decisions from a bond underwriter. This did you know segment is provided

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by Matthew Snowden with the Mahoney group and brought to you by Royal Hospice of Oregon.

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Yeah. Now how long have you been practicing being a surety?

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When I started in the business I left banking in 2014 and have progressed through the surety

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business for I guess that puts us just over 10 years and you must have a million stories.

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I do. Some of the rarely are they happy stories because they're usually really difficult

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situations that we confront. Yeah. And remember I do a bribe variety of bonds. So the only

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I don't only do probate bonds but they're usually the ones that stand out as the greatest stories

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from a you know tugging at your heartstrings wanting to help helping folks navigate challenging

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situations. We we got to call one time from a gentleman who he had lost his adult daughter

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and had taken custody of his minor granddaughter and the situation around his adult daughter's

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passing was heartbreaking and here's this poor granddaughter that needs somebody to care for her

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and he's the best solution according to the courts and according to his heart. And we had to find a way

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and again he was represented by an attorney which was critically important. We had to find a way

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to find a bond company that would honor an obligation that might last another I think 16 years because

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she was a very very small child and so we're trying to in a time of grief with great complication

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find a bond company that will step in and say we will we will co-sign this commitment

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for faithful execution until this child reaches the age of majority which is typically 18 as long

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as they're fully functional in to become a legal adult and with that we were you know we were

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scrambling to make sure that he could fulfill his familial commitments and we've had cases where

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adult children were taking care of aged parents and we had to ask really difficult questions about

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medical records because as interesting as it is to to think about it this way the longer that that

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aging parent might live the more difficult it is to find somebody that will enter into a non-cancelable

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commitment that you will be faithful to your duties for as long as that person lives. We cannot

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cancel that commitment once it's made in most states. So with a child you at least have an idea of

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when they're going to reach age of majority with an adult who is requiring a custodian

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that could go on for decades if they're in relatively good health and just not able to handle their affairs.

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Yeah. So just to be clear a probate bond doesn't always go into effect. The only

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well not the only time but the the time that it does is when there's no will that that's a

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gimme. It's one of the most common triggers. So in the absence of a will at least in the states where

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I'm specifically thinking about in the absence of a will that states that the administrator doesn't

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have to post a bond because that's another statement in the absence of that statement you could

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bind yourself posting a bond even under a will. So it's in an original will at that and so a bond is

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not always required in the event of someone's death but when someone steps into that executor or

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administrator role if the advanced planning was not sufficient and the right documents are not

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readily available you could find yourself in the position of needing to urgently post a financial

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commitment bond to step in and handle their affairs without all the right guidelines that you

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or guidance that you would need to make sure that you're doing things to their wishes. And to your

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air I mean you have fellow airs in many cases and so you sure you're mourning the loss of a loved one

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and you're also navigating your fellow airs interest and you can't put yours above theirs.

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Your interest above theirs is is a violation of trust. Yeah. So there's a probate bond and what are

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the some of the other types of bonds? There's a conservator bond. Yeah for our aging population we're

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really going to say that within the world of probate bonds it breaks down into living and deceased.

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In the deceased category it is someone who has passed away a person has been appointed as responsible

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for administering their affairs postmortem that person may be required to post a bond depending

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on the state depending on the size of the estate and depending on the documentation around their

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death. That's probate in the traditional postmortem sense. On the other side of the probate bond world

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are living wards and a ward is a person that cannot take care of themselves either because they

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haven't reached the age of majority in their minor or they're a living adult and in both of those

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cases that administrator that is stepping into that role could be a guardian could be a conservator

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goes by different names in different states but it's that person that's responsible for faithfully

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handling their financial affairs and making decisions for them that are in the best interest of the ward

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not in the best interest of the person taking care of their affairs. When somebody that doesn't have

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family and they become mentally incapacitated where they can no longer make decisions for themselves

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who appoints a conservator or a guardian is that would it be the state will have a judicial process

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and through that judicial process they will appoint a representative a personal representative is

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another term that you commonly hear in our business and so they will appoint someone to the role

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of conservator administrator whatever the whatever the state requires do they have a preference

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because there are professional conservators guardians out there that do this for a living

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but then they could maybe say well based on jacks you know he had a close neighbor would they

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would they jump in and do that or if maybe some distant relative is living in Ethiopia someplace.

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Yeah good question if the if that interested party is presented to the court and the court

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deems them to be appropriate then they can be appointed. Grandparents are a good example

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it's not the parents of the ward it's the grandparents and the grandparents are obviously intending

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to take care of this person it's not always automatic again in the absence of proper planning

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and that's really the whole message that I have for your audience today Mark I don't ever want you

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to need my services. Consult with a proper estate planning attorney that's qualified to do

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the documentation appropriate for your state if you move if your family composition changes

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if your assets materially change if you have children whatever the case may be update that document

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as time goes on so that it is current to where you are in your life for example my wife and I did

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our state planning we started it before we had children we contemplated future errors errors

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in our estate plan before we had children so that if something were to happen to us before we

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updated the documents they were ready for our children to step into that first in line position

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so yes an interested party can be appointed and that's really going to come down to that particular

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state and how their judicial process recognizes other interested parties in their standing.

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You kind of alluded to this in a while back but how long does a probate bond last?

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Great question it's because it can go on for a long time or it could be a short time.

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It's a long and long and long. It's a non-cancellable obligation that will renew annually until the

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estate is closed. Many simple estates can be closed inside of a year and all we look for is documentation

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from the local jurisdiction that shows that you've satisfactorily closed the estate and that we

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can release our bond and everybody in the transaction will be familiar with that and you'll get the

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required documentation. I'm also familiar with what I would call not super complex estates that

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have drug on for eight years and the reason they've drug on is the is the estate administrators

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have open items maybe there was complexity to a particular holding or a fellow dispute with an

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air that just hadn't been resolved this can go on for many years and you're going to pay that

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bond premium each year that you need to renew the commitment and your bond premium is based on

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the size of the assets and it's stipulated by the by the local judicial system so we actually can't

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issue a bond without a judicial order that tells us the size and the party and then we can issue then

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if with paternity representation and satisfactory credit and assets then we can enter into that

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commitment that again is non-cancellable so we're with you from a from a guarantee standpoint until you

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resolve the estate. Yeah do you have any stories to tell about how there were triggers

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that have happened with executors that were they got into trouble and maybe there's some things

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that you can share with us to help all of those of us that are as executors things that we need

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to be aware of so that we don't get blindsided down the road. Yeah I can give you a really it's relatively

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small and simple but it also illustrates the magnitude of what could be an otherwise small and

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routine decision so familiar with an estate where again not particularly large no real dispute

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among the heirs there was a little bit of complexity in in the financial affairs when the the individual

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passed away the administrator stepped in and began sorting out the bank accounts the credit card

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statements any bank loans okay we have we have these assets we have these liabilities well at that

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moment in time it appeared as though there were going to be sufficient cash assets to satisfy the credit

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cards and to start resolving the matters so that they could just quickly transition the estate and

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close it well pretty quickly it became apparent that there were there were open liabilities that were

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not obvious right away money was paid out of the check the in this case a business checking account

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to satisfy alone and then new liabilities came to light that would have had priority over that

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loan that was paid off because there's an order of priority in an estate and it's driven by statute

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and it's different by each state and so you as a normal person operating in totally good will

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might think well this is a simple bill I'm just going to pay this when and get it taken care of

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if you pay some bill out of order and this was the trigger in this case that there were there were

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priority claims that had not been satisfied there were legal bills that needed to be paid to keep

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proper representation of the estate intact and there were tax matters that had to be resolved

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funds were used to pay a non-priority creditor before they should have been paid and additional

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liquidity came into the estate and everything worked out okay but that administrator could have

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potentially found themselves in a position where they were personally responsible for making

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right a financial transaction that could not be unwound because they were just operating in good

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faith and good faith is not enough there's also statute and that's why the attorney guidance is

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so important to helping you pay the right people at the right time and not finding yourself on

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the wrong side of a claim bonded or unbonded it's true either way even in the absence of a bond

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because you know all the proper planning was in place you could still find yourself on the wrong

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side of priority if you don't get good legal guidance yeah so the obvious question is how much

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does it cost and oh yeah good question who pays it you got always got to ask the question it's a great

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question so it's going to vary by creditworthiness of the applicant it's going to vary by state it's

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going to vary by size you know routine call it you know two hundred thousand dollar relatively small

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estate that's not complex you're probably talking in four hundred bucks for the year maybe five

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hundred bucks for the year for the bond as the bond amount gets larger and the commitment gets longer

409
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those can go up pretty substantially but a relatively small estate that's only likely to be

410
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:47,080
open for a year not terribly expensive a living but it's on a sliding scale it is it is so yeah the

411
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:53,080
larger the estate the larger the bond requirement that's going to be imposed on you by the court

412
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,640
and the larger the bond requirement the larger the premium because our bond premium is just a

413
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:07,640
percentage typically of the bond amount and it is more expensive so to speak to guarantee the

414
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:12,920
affairs of a living ward than it is to guarantee the faithful administration of a deceased estate

415
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:21,960
what happens when you run out of money I have the problem in my world because of yeah the

416
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:28,600
lot of times you know people are cash poor and property rich or asset rich whatever that means

417
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:34,120
then what happens well you actually ask two different questions which are both very interesting the

418
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:43,640
first one is what happens if we have assets but not enough cash to pay the bills in that case you're

419
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:50,360
either faced with injecting outside cash to satisfy the affairs of the estate which you're

420
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:56,040
typically not required to do so you're in a lot of ways throwing good money after bad or your

421
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:04,040
force to start liquidating assets of the estate to create liquidity and pay bills and many times

422
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:09,160
you can work with all of the interested parties and and establish hey we're going to sell these assets

423
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:17,160
we're going to pay these bills it's all very administratively driven by the judicial system and so

424
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:23,240
they will typically expect an accounting of the estate and you'll have to answer for we had this

425
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:29,960
much in assets they were just kind of property this kind of cash this kind of shadow or you know cars

426
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:35,080
boats guns whatever the person owned this is how we liquidated them we turn them into this much cash

427
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:41,480
and we paid these bills and there's a claims process where a creditor is notified it needs to be

428
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:48,920
notified of the death of an individual and then they need to file a claim with the appropriate

429
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:55,560
authority and then that authority has a record that you are responsible to pay that debt out of the

430
00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,680
proceeds of the estate before you can close it and in the event that the estate does not have sufficient

431
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:08,360
assets even after liquidation to pay all of the creditors again you need to consult with an attorney

432
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:13,160
but you tip you're just effectively dealing with a bankrupt estate and so whatever's available will

433
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:19,480
go to the priority creditors with nothing left for those that don't have priority and in many

434
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:26,440
cases that can be the errors of the deceased that don't get anything yeah and I'm wondering if I

435
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:31,640
don't know if you see this or if this is more of an attorney type question but let's say I find out

436
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:36,680
in the will that I'm the executor and because of all this conversation I don't want to be the

437
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:43,240
executor I don't want to be on the hook can I back out of being the executor yeah you're going to

438
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:50,040
want to get legal representation it's typically you typically can't be conscribed to service in most

439
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:56,360
cases there you have to accept the responsibility and and if you don't then there's typically a judicial

440
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:04,120
process to appoint the next in line the next line yeah in some cases there can be disputes

441
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:11,160
among the errors and so sometimes the court has to hear that dispute to also adjudicate who's

442
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:19,640
going to be in charge yeah is there anything else that that you want to share with with us about

443
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:28,120
probate bonds and I think it's I think it's important to understand that the bond company is not there

444
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:34,840
to protect you the bond company is there as a backstop my biggest takeaway yeah I wish I could tell

445
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,000
you that you know we're your best friend when we write the bond and where your worst enemy when

446
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,640
things go wrong and it's not because we desire that it's just the nature of the obligation

447
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:49,880
and yeah and we're not legal counsel you really do need qualified legal counsel typically in that

448
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:55,160
local market where you're dealing with the issue in your example where an error is across the country

449
00:46:55,160 --> 00:47:00,920
there's a very good chance that they're going to need to hire local counsel to navigate the complexities

450
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:08,040
of that local matter and the best thing I can say is don't need me do proper estate planning for your

451
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:14,360
loved ones as difficult as it is consult with your loved ones that may pass ahead of you

452
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,600
and get them engaged in the planning process even if they don't want to tell you what's in the

453
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:24,200
document at least have the document and know where it is and how to access it in the time of need

454
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:29,480
mark I'm sure on your program you've talked about advanced directives many times that gets bundled

455
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,840
in with this and it can really nobody comes to us having the best day of their life and needing

456
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,880
a probate bond because they've either had to step in and take care of a ward or because they've

457
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:46,200
lost a loved one we just add stress to the process and that's not our that's not what we want it's

458
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:52,360
just the nature of bonds are a very invasive underwriting process it's like qualifying for a mortgage

459
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:58,680
we have to know a lot about you and many times that document may not even be handy because you're

460
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,800
across the country contending with immediate challenges that need to be dealt with and so the

461
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:10,200
the more advanced preparation the better there are cases where folks you know sometimes say a terrible

462
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:18,920
auto accident that puts a minor in a position of needing a conservator we can't always plan our

463
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,640
way out of that but really good legal counsel can help you navigate those obligations so that when

464
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:28,760
you do come to us you're you're prepared for what it is exactly that the court is going to mandate

465
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:38,840
that you provide yeah yeah so I got one final question for you and I and just maybe a statement here

466
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:44,280
I thought that you were going to protect me like the good friend that you have always been you've

467
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:50,280
always been protecting me over the last eight years but now I don't need you Matt you know

468
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:57,400
because I've got everything's taken care of in the will as the executor hopefully knock on wood

469
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:04,520
I won't I'm not going to need a you know a probate bond moving forward but but that doesn't mean

470
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:09,000
that I still can't be your friend I've never been more happy not to earn your business mark

471
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:16,520
so so tell us a little bit about those of that are listening out there and they

472
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:24,360
maybe are in a place where you know the will isn't clear and they need a you know a probate bond

473
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:32,680
tell us a little bit about you and how they can get in touch with you and and how all that works

474
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:40,360
sure you know we're we're in the business of being found when you need us and so it could be

475
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:45,320
as simple as writing it down and putting it in the file of important papers that you know open

476
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:51,240
upon death or when needed or whatever the case but I'm pretty simple to find my name is Matt Snowden

477
00:49:51,240 --> 00:50:07,560
SNOW DEN my email is M Snowden M SNOW DEN at the Mahoney Group dot com that's M Snowden at M-A-H-O-N-E-Y-G-R-O-U-P dot com

478
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:18,280
my phone number is 623 215 1378 again 623 215 1378 I don't get texts at that number you actually

479
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:24,200
have to use it as a telephone which I know is a crazy concept in today's world but typically if I

480
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:30,440
don't pick up I get back to you within 24 hours and you know these things are challenging and so if

481
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:35,080
you have advanced questions I'm more than happy to answer them in hopes that you never need what I

482
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:44,120
have to offer yeah yeah well and and I just want to validate Matt and I've known him for the past

483
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:50,840
eight years and he's a man of integrity and if you do need that assistance or if you do need to

484
00:50:50,840 --> 00:51:00,360
ask more in-depth questions or scenarios Matt will be able to assist you and help you to resolve the

485
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:06,920
the conflict that you might find yourself in honor Matt thank you. Thank you. Yeah and Matt I just

486
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:13,080
want to say thank you for your friendship thank you for supporting aging today and I just also

487
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:21,480
want to say thank you for you know everything that you've done for us and the the service that you

488
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:26,440
can bring to our listening audience I think is incredible and you can serve all 50 states correct.

489
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:33,800
We can yeah yeah yeah perfect all right well thanks again for being on aging today and this is

490
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:39,320
Mark Turnbull your host and I want to thank all of you for tuning in to aging today we are the

491
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:45,560
podcast where together we're exploring the many options to aging on your terms and remember this

492
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:51,880
we're all aging and we're on the process of aging and as we age we really are better together

493
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,520
so stay young at heart.

494
00:51:54,520 --> 00:52:03,720
You make me feel so young you make me feel like spring has sprung and every time I see your face

495
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:12,280
I'm such a happy individual the moment that she speaks I want to go play hide and see

496
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:23,880
I want to go and bounce the moon just like a toy balloon well you and I I'll just like a bullet

497
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:33,480
dot running across the metal pick and I've lots of forget me not so you made me feel so young

498
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:41,560
you made me feel there are songs to be sung there will still be run and wonderful thing to be fun

499
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:49,160
and when I'm old and grey you've been listening to aging today where together we explore the

500
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:55,640
options to aging on your terms join Mark and his guest next week for another lively discussion on

501
00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:02,360
proactively aging on your terms connecting you to the professional advice of his special guests

502
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:08,600
with the goal of creating better days throughout the aging process your host has been Mark Turnbull

503
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:15,160
join Mark and his guest every week on aging today your podcast to exploring your options for aging

504
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:35,480
on your terms and you when I'm old and grey you make me feel the way I feel today because you make me feel so you make me feel so you make me feel so young

505
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:46,760
you make me feel so young you make me feel so young