Love, Loss & Finding Connection in Later Life

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Do you find that that may be true for all of us as we progress through life every,

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you know, instead of being married for lifetime? Maybe we should be married for 10 years and then

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you re-up again. Yeah, well, it's a reason why people sometimes, in second and third marriages,

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say, you know, I think I've done a better job of picking the person that I guess someone

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now much more compatible with the other. And now the podcast we're together,

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we discuss proactive aging on your terms, connecting to the professional advice of our special guests,

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while creating better days throughout the aging process. Now here's your host, Mark Turnbull.

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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another lively discussion on aging today. We are the

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podcast where together we explore the many options to aging on your terms. You can find aging today

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and our past eight years of programming on our website. All you got to do is go to agingtoday.us.

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That's agingtoday.us. And I want to say thank you for all of you that have been following us over

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the past eight years, without you, this podcast could not be possible. And it's really important for me

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to know what your questions are moving forward on the aging process because we tackle everything. We

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want to bring aging to the forefront, bring it up on top of the table, and we're going to address

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every little aspect of aging. Well, I know a few things in the short term that I've been on this

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earth for the past 67s, one years, was that I've cleaned is that I don't like being alone. And I

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don't think we're hardwired to be alone. In fact, I think if you go back to the biblical story of Adam

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and Eve, you know, God created Adam. And then he realized that Adam was alone and he so he created

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Eve. And he didn't create Eve to be subservient. He didn't create Eve to be above or below, but right beside

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walking together. And as we traverse this earth. And I believe that. And I think our guests believe

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that just, you know, I'm not sure if you believe the biblical story, but here to join us in that

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conversation about not being alone, and especially moving into our senior years. And as we traverse this

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earth, you know, things happen and our spouses leave us for whatever reasons, whether it's divorce or

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death. We have wake up one morning and not only do we find ourselves suddenly senior, but we find

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ourselves suddenly alone. And you don't have to be alone because that is what Gloria,

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Horsely and Frank Powers are going to be addressing. They've written a book called Open to Love the

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Secret to Senior Dady. And so we're going to have a lively discussion. Welcome both of you to

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aging today. Thank you. Thank you. We're happy to be here. Yeah, we're excited about being on.

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Yeah, I'm excited to have you too because one of the things that I appreciate about all of my

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guests, but especially you too that have traversed this earth a little bit longer than myself is that

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not only do you have a lot of knowledge, but with that knowledge is wrapped in all kinds of wisdom.

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And I love wisdom. Wisdom is the art of living life skillfully. That's what wisdom is all about.

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And so you've learned that and you are prepared to share with us some some of the nuggets on how

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we can live our lives not alone. I think we're still learning it. Yeah, as we go, you know, yeah,

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you do learn on a regular basis. I'm I'm never too old to learn. I think that's important. I'm

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85 and Frank is 82. You're 82. I'm 81 until I know, but I feel 82. That's great. That's great. Well,

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so the way we start out all of our segments is we talk about, you know, not so much what's in your

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wallet, but what's in your story? We want to know the, you know, what brought you to for your paths

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to cross because you didn't start out life together, but you went you're at the tail end of or

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hopefully not too far down the tail end, but towards the end of your lives, you've crossed paths.

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So tell us a little bit and let's start with you, Gloria. Ladies first and tell us a little bit about

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what's in your story. Well, I was married. Yeah, as we were in my age, I was just turning 21 and I was

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married for 60 years to the same man. We had four children and he passed away four years ago of

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a staff infection after and he'd had a number of back surgeries and health issues as he got older.

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So I'd been through some health issues with him. And also, I think it's one thing I like to mention is

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that my son was killed in an automobile accident many years ago, 40 years ago, and I have a foundation

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that deals with grief and loss. So I wasn't unfamiliar with the world of grief, loss and recovery.

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I do think you have to look at your background in how you respond at an older age to grief and loss

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because when my husband died, one of the things he said to me, he knew that he was had his blood

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count was going south and he said to me, Gloria, when I die, you're going to be with somebody else.

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And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, I'll never be with anybody else. We were married. He said, you will be

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which was kind of an interesting permission, but go on from that,

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been married for 60 years and I got into a grief recovery group. And when I was in the group,

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because I'm a therapist, I've been a therapist for 40 years, and I did.

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What kind of a therapist? I was a marriage and family therapist. I'm also a clinical nurse specialist

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in psychiatry and I also have a degree in psychology. So, but so I kind of knew something about the whole

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world of grief, loss and psychology and all that. And so I said to myself, okay, my husband died.

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What would I tell my clients? And I said, what I would tell him is to get some support

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that peer support, particularly I feel like is really important. So how am I going to get some

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support? So I called my local organization, I live in Palo Alto, California and I called them,

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it's called Cara and said, hey, Jim, who is the head of it that I've known for years. Look,

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I feel like I need to get into some therapy because I, but I don't think you're going to be able

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to find a therapist for me. And he said, well, let me look around. And he's, he got a guy who actually

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had had a child die and who counseled other therapists and had a wife die. So it was like, wow.

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So I got into a group with Cara and I met a guy in the group named Steve and Steve was a golfer.

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This is only after Frank, yeah, it's going to have been dead for only about five months.

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And I started golfing with him every single day. So I never started golfing through grief.

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I actually wrote an article. So I'm golfing with him every single day. I never, I don't think I

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would have gotten any relationship that soon, but I golfing with him every day finally after about four

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months, he just asked me if he could move in with me. And I said, you know, why not? So he moved in.

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And after I had been with him for about nine months, it was Christmas time. And I went to Hawaii with

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with my whole family. And it was about 27 people that all went together in real houses.

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He was in the while we're whalming for him, I think. And he was like, I was staying in Hawaii for

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a little bit longer. And he said to me, he sent me an email. I mean, a text and said, I want you to

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know I'm moving out of the house. I'm out of here. Yeah, he does it. It's too much. And then he

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ghosted me. I guess we should have talked about it. And I didn't even know what ghosting was. So I

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got ghosted. So I'm in Hawaii and I get COVID. And I am so angry. What year was that when you were

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in Hawaii? What year was that? Was that 20? 19? That was four years, three years ago. Yeah, three.

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Because I was in Hawaii. The reason I asked is I was in Hawaii with my mom and dad. And they were,

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they were, I think at that time, 90, eight, yeah, about, they were 90. And that's when the pandemic just started.

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In fact, my mom and I, we believe my mom and I got COVID while we were there in Hawaii. But nobody knew

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what it was. They didn't even know what to treat. But my mom went, had it end up going to the hospital twice.

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I'm like, and then I went, I woke up one morning at, I heard in the middle of the night and I said to

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Christina, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. And I wasn't feeling well. And she says, you're going to be,

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I'm going to need to go to the hospital. And I never wanted to go to the hospital. And she says,

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I just suck it up, but I'm, so I went back to bed.

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Well, it would be probably a little bit later than that because COVID had been around

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for a while. But anyway, I decided to write a book for widows because I learned from my experience

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and for what happened to me that I've been given some pretty bad advice for the past 40 years to

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some widows, which was don't do anything for the first year. Don't do this, don't do that. And

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it is kind of rule of thumb for therapists to say, don't make any big decisions for the first year.

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We love to say that. And I made a ton of decisions. I ended up living with a guy. I ended up getting ghosts.

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You know, all these things happened to me. And I realized that you have to go with survival.

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You're trying to survive. And you're, you're just going to go with what you, what you can get up in

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the morning and do and what you need. Yeah. And what's not, not destructive. So you're saying that

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all of the advice that used to give to your, your clients, you, and you did the exact opposite.

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Exactly. And as a result of that, now, do you adhere to that to this, to this day that you would not,

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if you were active in therapy, what would you say to somebody? I would look definitely at their

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total circumstances. What's their past history with grief and loss? How do they understand it? How

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do they frame it? How, what their age is and what get into it later that I didn't have time. Frank

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and I didn't have time to court for a year or whatever my kids expected me to do. You know, you've got

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to look at the total and complete person. You know, women are widow. The average age of widowhood.

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And people don't realize this is 57. Yeah. And for a minute, 67. So, you know, you're saying,

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just a lot of differences. And for me, I was at the time, 80, when my husband died. So, you know,

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you've just got to look at circumstances, but there's just no rule of thumb. And having people tell

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you to wait for a year, you know, it may work and it may not. But you have to really trust your

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own judgment about it and be aware of what your needs are. And I feel, and we'll, Frank, we'll talk a

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little bit. We'll talk a little bit about how important it was that I had been in a relationship

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before I met Frank. It made me feel much more comfortable actually that she was only a year and a half

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out. And really, in a sense, had already been in a relationship. And that she was, I was really

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appreciative of how angry she was about it. And I thought, Oh, wow. Okay. That's good. I like pretty

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good now. So anyway, I decided I'm sitting there and I decided I'm going to write a book for widows

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because I want to talk about all the things I've learned, you know, going into a therapy group,

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what I liked about it, what I didn't, you know, the whole thing about widowhood. And I thought, well,

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you know, if I'm going to write a book on widowhood, I've really got to do a chapter on online dating.

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Well, I never, ever thought about online dating. So I just go on and Google online dating and I get

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silver singles. I sign up. Yeah. And I met a guy that Dave who I met in Arizona. I set up a date with him.

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I went to stay with my sister in Arizona for the winter. As she's, uh, it's a single, the worst. And

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so I went to stay with her. So I was going to go from Hawaii to Arizona. So I, you know, put in

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Arizona is my location. And I met a guy named Dave. I set up a coffee with him when I got back. And then

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and then Frank got a second one. And he was a second person that I signed up to go to pop you with when

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I got back. And we took a little negotiation. I'm like, I wanted to see him write a, you know, I

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wanted to meet him and get on with the process because I'm going to write my books. I got to really,

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you know, get this thing on the ground rolling fast. And the first thing she says to me when we meet

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is saying, you know what? I don't want to mislead you. I'm only here to write a book. I look in her eyes

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and I said, I don't think so. I think this is research. I don't think so. I know.

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Yeah. So anyway, I got back to Arizona. I met Dave and he spent his whole time talking about

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his surgery he'd had. And I'm like, I don't know with these two guys. I look pretty good. Yeah.

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So the moral of the lesson is, don't be the first. Be the third.

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Come across much better if they've had a bad experience before. You know, Frank and I have talked about

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it as a therapist. If I met somebody who'd never dated before and had had a loss, loss, loss,

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I might be like, I'm like, are they ready? I don't want to, you don't want to be my therapist.

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I know. I want to carry someone through. So, Gloria, what did you learn about yourself? You know,

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as you were going through the ups and downs of, you know, going through grief, going through loss

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and all the things that you used to say clinically in, you know, the office to your clients,

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you were doing the exact opposite. What did you learn about yourself that was kind of revealing?

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I kind of learned that I was a very stronger than you think and that you'll get through it.

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And there are people that will help you.

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You have to accept that help, particularly in finances and business and things like that.

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Because you got that emotional side that you need to be able to nurture, you need to be able to cry when you need to be able to cry.

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You need to be able to leave the room when you need to be able to leave the room.

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You need people. You need people to be there for you.

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Yeah. And allow them to support you.

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And yeah, you have to say yes.

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You know, can I do this for you or and you have to say can you do this for me?

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Could you drive me to the airport or could you come over and help me with my computer or my problems?

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You know, you've got to be open to having people come in and you do need care and to be taken care of.

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However, on the other hand, you also need to look good.

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You know, I did.

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Yeah. I needed to look strong.

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Well, and being a professional in psychology, you were probably pretty confident in who you were.

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And you've had a lot of experiences through other people's experiences in life.

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So you were very confident.

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But you then all of a sudden you wake up one day and now you're alone and you're vulnerable.

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And that must have been a huge change in the way you look at things.

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Yep. Being a lot.

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I'm not a loner kind of person.

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And yeah, I was happy to get in the group and to meet people and and to get involved with Steve and to go golfing with him every day.

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It was very healthy.

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It was.

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You had to go in and get out and do something and cover was going on.

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Well, his wife had died two days after my husband or before and his wife had Alzheimer's for years.

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So because of that, he had a little bit of a trajectory.

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He knew she was ill.

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She chose not to eat.

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She had Alzheimer's and she chose to die because she made her choice.

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So he'd been through a lot, but that being said, he really wasn't ready for the relationship.

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And I, you know, not your family.

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No, he ended up having a nervous breakdown.

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Yes.

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I did.

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It afterwards.

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Yeah, because he said he hadn't we talked to him and he said he hadn't really greets his wife when he met me.

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So, you know, they're coming together with other people.

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It's interesting.

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But I found my one-to-one counseling really good.

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And that was really, really important to me to have somebody that I could talk to once a week.

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And he would listen to me.

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And he didn't really make that many suggestions.

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He would just listen to, you know, what I had to say.

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And I told him one thing I said, I feel too good.

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I feel like I should be having a nervous breakdown.

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It should be sadder.

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I guess that's one of the things, Mark said I really found out.

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And maybe it's because of my age, but I worked with a lot.

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And I said that I think having my son die made a difference.

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Because I worked with a lot of widows.

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This is their number one first big thing that's ever happened to them.

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So I like to say this about it.

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Having my son die was like going to Mount Everest without oxygen.

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Having my son die was like going to Mount Everest with oxygen.

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00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:21,700
I knew the trip.

193
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:22,740
I'd taken it.

194
00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:26,020
I knew I would live and I knew I would be happy again.

195
00:19:26,020 --> 00:19:27,780
Yeah.

196
00:19:27,780 --> 00:19:30,340
And I did not know that the first time.

197
00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:33,780
And I don't think you know when for the big losses,

198
00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:35,780
could you ever be happy again?

199
00:19:35,780 --> 00:19:38,100
Are losses like almost any other experience,

200
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:41,700
the more you have the better you get at dealing with it, I think?

201
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:42,260
Yeah.

202
00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:44,660
You also, you know, there are health issues.

203
00:19:44,660 --> 00:19:46,580
I mean, I knew that also.

204
00:19:46,580 --> 00:19:49,780
I knew I absolutely had to take care of myself physically.

205
00:19:49,780 --> 00:19:51,220
I was fully aware of that.

206
00:19:51,220 --> 00:19:53,460
It seemed too many people go south.

207
00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:54,100
Yeah.

208
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:55,620
Who had had losses.

209
00:19:55,620 --> 00:19:56,420
Caretaker syndrome is really true.

210
00:19:56,420 --> 00:19:59,460
And I'd had caretaker syndrome from taking care of my husband.

211
00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:02,420
So I really was very, very aware.

212
00:20:02,420 --> 00:20:07,300
If there could be one thing, I would say to people who are in grief,

213
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:11,140
and particularly spouses, make sure you take care of your own health.

214
00:20:11,140 --> 00:20:13,940
Because people die within the first couple of years.

215
00:20:13,940 --> 00:20:15,380
of a spouse's death.

216
00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:16,980
So it would have to happen.

217
00:20:16,980 --> 00:20:17,860
Yeah.

218
00:20:17,860 --> 00:20:20,260
No, it's preventable.

219
00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:20,980
Yeah.

220
00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:23,460
So Frank, what's in your story?

221
00:20:23,460 --> 00:20:26,100
Well, I came from a totally different perspective.

222
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:31,780
I was divorced a year and a half before I went back online.

223
00:20:31,780 --> 00:20:35,780
And I was in a position of kind of ending my career

224
00:20:35,780 --> 00:20:37,380
and not knowing what I was going to do.

225
00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:39,700
And I had retirement ahead of me.

226
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:43,380
And I thought, oh gosh, do I want to stay in this house

227
00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:45,300
and do all this maintenance for this?

228
00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:47,860
Or do I want to go into a senior community?

229
00:20:47,860 --> 00:20:52,980
Because I thought, no, senior community, I think being a male,

230
00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:54,900
I'm probably in a good position.

231
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:56,980
It's two to one in senior communities.

232
00:20:56,980 --> 00:20:59,220
So I'm sure it's two to one.

233
00:20:59,220 --> 00:21:01,220
It's not five to one.

234
00:21:01,220 --> 00:21:05,060
Yeah, well, it's 10 to one.

235
00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:07,620
I knew I was on the right side of the system.

236
00:21:07,620 --> 00:21:08,820
So that was--

237
00:21:08,820 --> 00:21:09,940
Yeah.

238
00:21:09,940 --> 00:21:13,220
So I thought, OK, well, maybe I'll go to a senior community

239
00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:17,180
and I said, no, I met my wife online.

240
00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:19,860
Maybe I should try this again.

241
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:21,380
It was pretty successful.

242
00:21:21,380 --> 00:21:23,060
Even more than one wife online.

243
00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:25,060
[LAUGHTER]

244
00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:26,060
Yeah.

245
00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:29,660
So I decided to go back online.

246
00:21:29,660 --> 00:21:32,300
And then saw Gloria's profile.

247
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:35,180
And I said, wow, this is a powerhouse lady.

248
00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:37,380
I want to meet this lady.

249
00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:38,260
Then I met her.

250
00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:40,460
And she was one of the few people that

251
00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:42,660
looked better than her profile picture.

252
00:21:42,660 --> 00:21:43,660
Yeah.

253
00:21:43,660 --> 00:21:46,860
The problem with online dating is the profile pictures

254
00:21:46,860 --> 00:21:48,620
are usually 10 years before.

255
00:21:48,620 --> 00:21:51,060
Well, I didn't know to do anything,

256
00:21:51,060 --> 00:21:53,900
but take a camera and take my picture.

257
00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:55,060
Yeah, that's exactly it.

258
00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:56,940
I honestly was very refreshing.

259
00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:57,860
Yeah, yeah.

260
00:21:57,860 --> 00:21:59,860
Well, and the rest of the profiles

261
00:21:59,860 --> 00:22:02,620
that you saw, Frank, were at the same woman,

262
00:22:02,620 --> 00:22:04,300
but they were in their 20s.

263
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:05,700
Yes, exactly.

264
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:08,700
Yeah.

265
00:22:08,700 --> 00:22:11,180
So it was really refreshing.

266
00:22:11,180 --> 00:22:13,980
And then all of a sudden, we meet.

267
00:22:13,980 --> 00:22:20,060
And Gloria was so amazing because she was a newbie.

268
00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:21,420
And I had been on before.

269
00:22:21,420 --> 00:22:26,140
So I knew a little bit of the informal rules of dating online.

270
00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:29,420
And she didn't do any of them.

271
00:22:29,420 --> 00:22:32,660
First of all, normally, you just go out for coffee

272
00:22:32,660 --> 00:22:33,500
the first time.

273
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:34,500
You know, you know, you do that.

274
00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:38,660
But I gave her the option of coffee or happy hour.

275
00:22:38,660 --> 00:22:39,940
And she chose happy hours.

276
00:22:39,940 --> 00:22:43,060
So I said, oh, wow, a lot of confidence this lady has.

277
00:22:43,060 --> 00:22:44,060
OK.

278
00:22:44,060 --> 00:22:45,060
So we met for a happy hour.

279
00:22:45,060 --> 00:22:46,180
No, I love it today.

280
00:22:46,180 --> 00:22:48,660
And we had such a wonderful time.

281
00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:53,380
And I was teasing her, you know, using this old metaphor.

282
00:22:53,380 --> 00:22:55,100
I said, I said, well, you want to come up

283
00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:57,380
and see my etchings because I'm a sculptor too.

284
00:22:57,380 --> 00:22:59,820
So I thought that would be a funny line.

285
00:22:59,820 --> 00:23:02,740
And the first thing she says, oh, yeah, I'd like to see them.

286
00:23:02,740 --> 00:23:05,980
And then she says to me, oh, you know, my car is in a shop.

287
00:23:05,980 --> 00:23:07,500
Do you mind giving me a ride home?

288
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:09,860
Oh, my God.

289
00:23:09,860 --> 00:23:12,140
First time I meeting her.

290
00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:13,140
Wow.

291
00:23:13,140 --> 00:23:15,940
Frank did have a Frank.

292
00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:18,180
You know, that's one nice thing about the internet.

293
00:23:18,180 --> 00:23:20,220
I had already stalked him on the internet.

294
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:20,740
Yeah.

295
00:23:20,740 --> 00:23:23,180
I had a website that is there.

296
00:23:23,180 --> 00:23:24,580
So he's also a sculptor.

297
00:23:24,580 --> 00:23:27,860
And he had, I knew I was going to go see his sculptures.

298
00:23:27,860 --> 00:23:28,380
Yeah.

299
00:23:28,380 --> 00:23:29,380
Yeah.

300
00:23:29,380 --> 00:23:32,620
So how about boy hair confidence really set out?

301
00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:37,220
I mean, how much did the--

302
00:23:37,220 --> 00:23:41,620
the two of you as therapists play into you connecting?

303
00:23:41,620 --> 00:23:42,940
All very much, though.

304
00:23:42,940 --> 00:23:45,060
You know, we have kind of a philosophy.

305
00:23:45,060 --> 00:23:48,500
And it's in the book that when you're 30,

306
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:52,420
you really like a person to be different, opposites, a track.

307
00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:55,180
And you like the difference in whatever.

308
00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:56,900
And then you spend the next 30 years trying

309
00:23:56,900 --> 00:23:58,620
to make them like you.

310
00:23:58,620 --> 00:24:01,020
As you get older, it's really much more important

311
00:24:01,020 --> 00:24:03,380
to find someone who's more similar to you

312
00:24:03,380 --> 00:24:04,700
because it makes it so easy.

313
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:07,660
You don't have a lot of issues they have to work out.

314
00:24:07,660 --> 00:24:11,300
And for us, you know, coming from the same field,

315
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:13,740
knowing the same people in the field

316
00:24:13,740 --> 00:24:16,740
and having this connection really made it easier.

317
00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:21,140
So I think the familiarity of finding someone who's

318
00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:23,700
more similar to you is an important issue

319
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:26,020
as you get older in terms of dating.

320
00:24:26,020 --> 00:24:27,300
You don't want to spend a lot of time

321
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:29,860
trying to change the other person.

322
00:24:29,860 --> 00:24:30,860
Yeah.

323
00:24:30,860 --> 00:24:34,580
And when you were describing Gloria earlier

324
00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:38,460
about you were writing a book and you meet Frank and Frank Skang,

325
00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:40,540
I don't want to be the subject of your book.

326
00:24:40,540 --> 00:24:44,700
And it reminded me of the movie with Diane Keaton

327
00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:46,460
and Jack Nicholson.

328
00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:47,940
Do you know that movie?

329
00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:50,900
I can't think of the name of it right now.

330
00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:52,860
That's right with that.

331
00:24:52,860 --> 00:24:54,900
It's a great movie.

332
00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:55,700
Oh, yeah.

333
00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:57,500
I have to watch it.

334
00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:01,700
Check it out and just Google Diane Keaton and Jack Nicholson.

335
00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:04,340
And she was a writer.

336
00:25:04,340 --> 00:25:05,340
And she--

337
00:25:05,340 --> 00:25:07,060
Yeah, I thought it thought for me and that.

338
00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:08,100
What's that?

339
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:10,820
Didn't he have a dog and he was their neighbor or something?

340
00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:11,300
No.

341
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:12,820
No, this was different.

342
00:25:12,820 --> 00:25:14,540
So they were a movie.

343
00:25:14,540 --> 00:25:18,500
So Jack Nicholson is dating her daughter.

344
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:19,860
Oh, yes.

345
00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:20,460
That's right.

346
00:25:20,460 --> 00:25:21,660
I remember that.

347
00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:22,940
Yeah.

348
00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:24,060
Yeah, that's a great movie.

349
00:25:24,060 --> 00:25:25,700
But anyhow, I was just thinking of that

350
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:27,060
when you were describing your situation.

351
00:25:27,060 --> 00:25:29,020
One of the things that's been really interesting

352
00:25:29,020 --> 00:25:32,820
Mark is the difference between divorce and--

353
00:25:32,820 --> 00:25:35,820
now I joined this group.

354
00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:38,340
I meet this guy in a grief group.

355
00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:42,020
And I say to my family, oh, I met this guy in a group.

356
00:25:42,020 --> 00:25:42,940
I met this guy.

357
00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:43,460
I'm dating.

358
00:25:43,460 --> 00:25:44,260
We're golfing together.

359
00:25:44,260 --> 00:25:46,220
And they're like, well, where did you meet him?

360
00:25:46,220 --> 00:25:49,100
And I say in a grief group and everybody says, oh,

361
00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:50,980
that's OK.

362
00:25:50,980 --> 00:25:51,860
That's great.

363
00:25:51,860 --> 00:25:53,020
And then I meet Frank.

364
00:25:53,020 --> 00:25:56,380
And they say, oh, what about Frank some background?

365
00:25:56,380 --> 00:25:57,740
And I say he's been divorced.

366
00:25:57,740 --> 00:26:02,700
And they're like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

367
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:04,900
I had to pass musters, sometimes.

368
00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:09,100
You do kind of get a pass when there's a grief.

369
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:10,340
They want to--

370
00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:13,100
Divorce you, you're problematic.

371
00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:15,900
Yeah, you talk about loneliness.

372
00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:17,500
At least you've had a death.

373
00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:19,340
People want to go to dinner with you.

374
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:22,620
And you know, not afraid of you trying to steal their husband

375
00:26:22,620 --> 00:26:24,380
right away.

376
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:29,020
So as therapists, and I don't know if you guys consider

377
00:26:29,020 --> 00:26:33,140
yourself fixers, most men are fixers.

378
00:26:33,140 --> 00:26:36,860
They want to fix the women, or maybe it's the other way around.

379
00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:39,700
Women want to fix the man.

380
00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:44,940
Did you wrestle with that at all?

381
00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:47,940
Being therapists also--

382
00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:49,580
I'm sure at that age--

383
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:53,460
how do you approach a new relationship

384
00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:56,260
and you look at people and you go, I'm going to fix that?

385
00:26:56,260 --> 00:26:59,140
I mean, I like everything I see, but there's things

386
00:26:59,140 --> 00:27:01,140
that need to be corrected.

387
00:27:01,140 --> 00:27:04,620
Well, Mark, you know, she told you the story about Steve.

388
00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:07,740
So she tells me the story about Steve.

389
00:27:07,740 --> 00:27:11,500
And I think, oh, OK, well, here I could be the good guy.

390
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:12,980
You know, I'm not going to go certain.

391
00:27:12,980 --> 00:27:14,580
I'm not going to do all these things.

392
00:27:14,580 --> 00:27:17,500
So I already had a role.

393
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:20,180
Oh, OK, well, I won't do any of those things

394
00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:22,180
as Steve did, of course.

395
00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:25,140
But you had your own stuff that you had to put up with me.

396
00:27:25,140 --> 00:27:26,540
Oh, my God.

397
00:27:26,540 --> 00:27:32,500
Well, her daughter right off the bat kind of said, mom,

398
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:35,380
we think this relationship is going too fast.

399
00:27:35,380 --> 00:27:39,940
So from very beginning, she was confronted by that.

400
00:27:39,940 --> 00:27:43,420
And I had-- I come walking in from doing therapy,

401
00:27:43,420 --> 00:27:49,220
and they were doing a podcast with their daughter.

402
00:27:49,220 --> 00:27:54,100
And Gloria says, you talk to him.

403
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:55,260
I said, you're right.

404
00:27:55,260 --> 00:27:57,780
Talk to him.

405
00:27:57,780 --> 00:27:59,380
Well, I was still in therapy mode.

406
00:27:59,380 --> 00:28:03,220
So I said, well, Rebecca, what can I do to make you

407
00:28:03,220 --> 00:28:05,260
feel more comfortable?

408
00:28:05,260 --> 00:28:06,260
Yeah.

409
00:28:06,260 --> 00:28:06,780
Yeah.

410
00:28:06,780 --> 00:28:10,140
Therapist arrives on the thing.

411
00:28:10,140 --> 00:28:11,900
Meanwhile, I'm in show shock.

412
00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:14,340
I mean, whoa.

413
00:28:14,340 --> 00:28:17,940
To tell you the honest truth, Mark, I don't think--

414
00:28:17,940 --> 00:28:20,820
do we have high expectations of each other?

415
00:28:20,820 --> 00:28:23,820
I mean, Frank is who he is, and I know what he does.

416
00:28:23,820 --> 00:28:26,100
And he has some habits that I don't like.

417
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:28,500
Some of them I ignore, and some of them I comment on.

418
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:32,940
I don't really lower the toilet seat that was off.

419
00:28:32,940 --> 00:28:37,940
[LAUGHTER]

420
00:28:37,940 --> 00:28:43,260
Well, you need to get what I got my mom and myself,

421
00:28:43,260 --> 00:28:45,220
and for my wife, Christine also.

422
00:28:45,220 --> 00:28:46,900
But I got them bad days.

423
00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:49,740
Where the toilet seat rises and closes all by itself.

424
00:28:49,740 --> 00:28:52,940
But yeah, that solves the problem right there, Frank.

425
00:28:52,940 --> 00:28:56,740
[LAUGHTER]

426
00:28:56,740 --> 00:28:57,940
That's really annoying.

427
00:28:57,940 --> 00:28:58,940
I know.

428
00:28:58,940 --> 00:29:01,500
Now, one of the things that we've got going right now

429
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:04,260
is that I have to plan all the social events.

430
00:29:04,260 --> 00:29:06,540
And I said to Frank, you know what?

431
00:29:06,540 --> 00:29:07,740
We've just got together.

432
00:29:07,740 --> 00:29:08,660
I got to get better.

433
00:29:08,660 --> 00:29:09,780
I get you get better at that.

434
00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:10,060
Yeah.

435
00:29:10,060 --> 00:29:12,940
And then you said, well, I'll do a couple of things a month.

436
00:29:12,940 --> 00:29:14,820
I brought my stepdaughter in.

437
00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:15,340
Yeah.

438
00:29:15,340 --> 00:29:16,340
As an activity.

439
00:29:16,340 --> 00:29:17,340
As a stepdaughter here.

440
00:29:17,340 --> 00:29:19,060
And we're having a ball with her.

441
00:29:19,060 --> 00:29:21,420
And she and her boyfriend play guitar,

442
00:29:21,420 --> 00:29:23,500
and they're going to do an event for us.

443
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:26,060
And you know, it's--

444
00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:33,100
But there are-- I think that we cut each other more slack

445
00:29:33,100 --> 00:29:35,020
than we would if we were 20.

446
00:29:35,020 --> 00:29:37,460
We often say, and I think it's really true,

447
00:29:37,460 --> 00:29:39,500
that we would have met in our 30s.

448
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:42,620
I don't think we would have been compatible.

449
00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:46,060
It's really now, after all life experiences

450
00:29:46,060 --> 00:29:48,140
and whatever and what we've gone through,

451
00:29:48,140 --> 00:29:50,060
that we're much more compatible.

452
00:29:50,060 --> 00:29:53,060
And we get along so much better about both of us.

453
00:29:53,060 --> 00:29:54,620
I bet-- we both said that.

454
00:29:54,620 --> 00:29:55,380
Yeah, we both said that.

455
00:29:55,380 --> 00:29:57,900
In the 30s, we were different people.

456
00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:01,140
And I don't think we would have been as compatible.

457
00:30:01,140 --> 00:30:01,660
Yeah.

458
00:30:01,660 --> 00:30:03,500
No, absolutely not.

459
00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:06,300
Do you find that that may be true for all of us

460
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:09,620
as we progress through life, every--

461
00:30:09,620 --> 00:30:11,180
you know, instead of--

462
00:30:11,180 --> 00:30:13,700
instead of being married for lifetime,

463
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:15,820
maybe we should be married for 10 years

464
00:30:15,820 --> 00:30:17,780
and then you re-up again.

465
00:30:17,780 --> 00:30:21,620
Yeah, well, it's a reason why people sometimes

466
00:30:21,620 --> 00:30:23,620
in second and third marriage just say, you know,

467
00:30:23,620 --> 00:30:26,540
I think I've done a better job of picking the person,

468
00:30:26,540 --> 00:30:32,420
or I guess someone I'm much more compatible with, yes.

469
00:30:32,420 --> 00:30:34,940
Did you know that loneliness is one of the major health

470
00:30:34,940 --> 00:30:36,700
problems today?

471
00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:39,580
The average age of widowhood is 57 years old

472
00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:43,100
for women and 65 years old for men.

473
00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:45,220
This leaves many potential years of living

474
00:30:45,220 --> 00:30:48,180
without a partner or companionship.

475
00:30:48,180 --> 00:30:50,700
Being open to love can broaden opportunities

476
00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:53,100
so you don't have to be alone.

477
00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:54,980
This, did you know, segment was brought to you

478
00:30:54,980 --> 00:30:57,860
by this week's guest and sponsored by Royal Hospice

479
00:30:57,860 --> 00:31:00,620
Oregon?

480
00:31:00,620 --> 00:31:03,620
Well, wasn't it Jackie O'Nassus that said,

481
00:31:03,620 --> 00:31:06,020
the first time I married for love is the second time I married

482
00:31:06,020 --> 00:31:06,860
for money.

483
00:31:06,860 --> 00:31:11,660
And the third time I don't remember with the third one.

484
00:31:11,660 --> 00:31:14,300
For companionship, maybe it was companionship.

485
00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:16,860
Yeah, that's a good point.

486
00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:20,540
You know, it's just a couple's world.

487
00:31:20,540 --> 00:31:23,340
And it's really tough out there to be lonely.

488
00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:26,700
Well, you know, people who are in relationship

489
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:30,620
tend to live seven years longer than people who are single.

490
00:31:30,620 --> 00:31:33,420
And so it's, like you said in the beginning,

491
00:31:33,420 --> 00:31:35,500
it really is more natural.

492
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:37,260
We're social animals.

493
00:31:37,260 --> 00:31:39,660
We need to have connection with someone.

494
00:31:39,660 --> 00:31:42,540
We don't generally do well alone.

495
00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:46,540
And so it is a couple's world and you do live longer.

496
00:31:46,540 --> 00:31:49,340
And I think most people are happier

497
00:31:49,340 --> 00:31:51,380
even if the relationship isn't perfect.

498
00:31:51,380 --> 00:31:53,660
Because relationships are not perfect.

499
00:31:53,660 --> 00:31:57,860
But it's so much nicer to cuddle up with someone.

500
00:31:57,860 --> 00:32:00,620
Pelotalk is absolutely the most wonderful way

501
00:32:00,620 --> 00:32:04,380
to deal with the frustrations of the day.

502
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:08,300
There are so many nice things about being in relationship

503
00:32:08,300 --> 00:32:12,300
and connected that are just healthier, emotionally and physically.

504
00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:17,580
Well, that being said, I know I have a lot of single women

505
00:32:17,580 --> 00:32:20,460
who are older who say they won't get into a relationship.

506
00:32:20,460 --> 00:32:21,340
They don't want to.

507
00:32:21,340 --> 00:32:22,660
And they're happy.

508
00:32:22,660 --> 00:32:23,580
And you know what?

509
00:32:23,580 --> 00:32:29,260
If you love your dog and you are able to get enough community

510
00:32:29,260 --> 00:32:32,540
in your neighborhood and with your community,

511
00:32:32,540 --> 00:32:35,420
and make those connections and get out, it's doable.

512
00:32:35,420 --> 00:32:37,020
There's no question.

513
00:32:37,020 --> 00:32:41,580
And women tend to do it better because they have closer relationships

514
00:32:41,580 --> 00:32:45,180
and guys tend to be a little more isolated

515
00:32:45,180 --> 00:32:47,740
and a little less ability to share

516
00:32:47,740 --> 00:32:50,220
and be connected with other men.

517
00:32:50,220 --> 00:32:54,220
And I think that that's something women do better than men.

518
00:32:54,220 --> 00:32:55,660
I find that interesting.

519
00:32:55,660 --> 00:32:58,300
I mean, you guys are both psychologists or therapists.

520
00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:04,620
And I find that women, you know, they tend to be more social.

521
00:33:04,620 --> 00:33:10,140
They tend to be more relational than men, men, or more isolated.

522
00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:13,980
And yet I find it interesting how as we age,

523
00:33:13,980 --> 00:33:16,460
men are definitely afraid of being alone.

524
00:33:16,460 --> 00:33:21,420
And yet women can handle being alone in general better.

525
00:33:21,420 --> 00:33:26,140
Well, and that doesn't, how do you bring those two together?

526
00:33:26,140 --> 00:33:31,500
Well, I think they look and sound like and they talk like they're doing well.

527
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:35,980
And I'm not sure that that's really how well they're doing.

528
00:33:35,980 --> 00:33:40,700
Certainly, then people came in to see me, men who are older.

529
00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:44,780
You know, they would kind of take off that cloak of,

530
00:33:44,780 --> 00:33:48,220
hey, I'm just fine, I doing great being single.

531
00:33:48,220 --> 00:33:51,500
And you've found underneath that they were pretty needy

532
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:54,380
and they were feeling really isolated and alone.

533
00:33:54,380 --> 00:34:00,700
And isolation and loneliness is the number one mental health issue for people who are older.

534
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:06,940
Well, I have to say that men oftentimes marry with them seven months.

535
00:34:06,940 --> 00:34:08,620
Yeah, because they needy.

536
00:34:08,620 --> 00:34:12,380
And what do they needy for?

537
00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:15,500
Are they needy for physical needs?

538
00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:17,340
Making care of in most cases,

539
00:34:17,340 --> 00:34:21,820
being in high spirits is that they want someone to take care of them.

540
00:34:21,820 --> 00:34:26,940
And they feel really scared about being alone, but they don't know how to deal with it.

541
00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:30,140
So the way that they do it is latch on to somebody right away.

542
00:34:30,140 --> 00:34:32,460
Yeah. And so as a woman, Gloria,

543
00:34:32,460 --> 00:34:38,780
I mean, would you want to be involved in a relationship where the man is needy

544
00:34:38,780 --> 00:34:43,980
unless, unless you're hardwired that way where you feel like, you know,

545
00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:47,260
that that's something you want to do is meet the needs of another human being?

546
00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:53,180
Well, I have to tell you sometime you got to remember what I just told you,

547
00:34:53,180 --> 00:34:55,740
men tend to marry within seven months.

548
00:34:55,740 --> 00:35:02,860
So the women that I work with, some of them I say, you may have to shepherd a guy through some of this.

549
00:35:02,860 --> 00:35:06,700
You've got to look like what he was like before the loss,

550
00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:08,940
because he will get back to that.

551
00:35:08,940 --> 00:35:13,660
But you may have to help them through some grief and loss in particular.

552
00:35:13,660 --> 00:35:15,100
They're not even aware of it.

553
00:35:15,100 --> 00:35:17,020
Yeah. And you know, they're women who

554
00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:19,500
maybe been single for five years or something.

555
00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:23,420
They didn't meet this great guy, but he was talking about his wife who died,

556
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:26,300
which I can't tell you how many times they complain about that.

557
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:29,020
And we talked to him about, look,

558
00:35:29,020 --> 00:35:32,780
when you're with him and he's talking about his wife all the time,

559
00:35:32,780 --> 00:35:34,060
you need to stop him.

560
00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:37,180
Yeah. You need to say, hey, you know, I really like you.

561
00:35:37,180 --> 00:35:38,620
I like our relationship.

562
00:35:38,620 --> 00:35:43,260
We need to focus on me too, you know, and ask for what you need.

563
00:35:43,260 --> 00:35:46,780
Don't let them get away with being all that needy.

564
00:35:46,780 --> 00:35:47,900
You've got to look at them.

565
00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:48,940
They can step it up.

566
00:35:48,940 --> 00:35:51,420
We have one cartoon in the book.

567
00:35:51,420 --> 00:35:53,580
I don't know if you remember seeing it,

568
00:35:53,580 --> 00:35:56,620
where the guy is having dinner with his date,

569
00:35:56,620 --> 00:35:58,700
but it's at his wife's grave.

570
00:35:58,700 --> 00:35:59,580
Oh, yeah.

571
00:35:59,580 --> 00:36:00,060
I see.

572
00:36:00,060 --> 00:36:01,180
I'll take your quiet, ready.

573
00:36:01,180 --> 00:36:02,300
Yeah.

574
00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:03,260
Yeah.

575
00:36:03,260 --> 00:36:04,940
That was a great cartoon.

576
00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:09,820
So since you brought that up, let's take a dive into your book.

577
00:36:09,820 --> 00:36:11,900
It's called Open to Love,

578
00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:13,740
the Secrets to Senior Dating.

579
00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:15,100
Did I get the title correct?

580
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:15,900
Exactly.

581
00:36:15,900 --> 00:36:16,780
Okay.

582
00:36:16,780 --> 00:36:20,380
So, Gloria, the impetus was with you.

583
00:36:20,380 --> 00:36:23,020
You were writing the book and Frank comes along.

584
00:36:23,020 --> 00:36:28,060
And, but I noticed that Frank's got his signature all over it.

585
00:36:28,060 --> 00:36:32,620
How then did you, how far were you into the book?

586
00:36:32,620 --> 00:36:36,540
And yet, how then did you dovetail the two sides,

587
00:36:36,540 --> 00:36:37,740
the two perspectives?

588
00:36:37,740 --> 00:36:43,740
I had, you know, just roughly put down a table of content.

589
00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:44,060
Yeah.

590
00:36:44,060 --> 00:36:45,900
And she was just talking about widows.

591
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:48,380
And so when we got, we said, well,

592
00:36:48,380 --> 00:36:50,220
I think we should talk about the relationship.

593
00:36:50,220 --> 00:36:51,820
I said, what are you writing with me about?

594
00:36:51,820 --> 00:36:54,700
You know, the book is a lived experience.

595
00:36:54,700 --> 00:36:56,940
It is really our clients.

596
00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:58,540
We have client stories in there,

597
00:36:58,540 --> 00:37:01,820
but we also have our own personal experience.

598
00:37:01,820 --> 00:37:07,580
Because at this age, nobody has the experience we have in this area lived.

599
00:37:07,580 --> 00:37:09,180
Yeah.

600
00:37:09,180 --> 00:37:13,580
1900, the average lifespan was 46 years of age.

601
00:37:13,580 --> 00:37:15,180
So we're gained 30 years.

602
00:37:15,180 --> 00:37:17,660
So there's not a lot of really good examples

603
00:37:17,660 --> 00:37:22,220
of people doing relationship well into their 70s and 80s.

604
00:37:22,220 --> 00:37:26,460
And there's not enough real good examples of how to do that well.

605
00:37:26,460 --> 00:37:30,540
And so this is the first generation that really has gotten

606
00:37:30,540 --> 00:37:35,660
large numbers of people who are living and having the health

607
00:37:35,660 --> 00:37:36,860
to have a relationship.

608
00:37:36,860 --> 00:37:40,220
Because you do have to be fairly healthy to have a relationship.

609
00:37:40,220 --> 00:37:41,020
Yeah.

610
00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:45,740
No one wants to start off a relationship being a caretaker in most cases.

611
00:37:45,740 --> 00:37:46,540
Yes.

612
00:37:46,540 --> 00:37:49,580
And you know, women talk about one of the things that

613
00:37:49,580 --> 00:37:53,180
stop them from dating is they don't want to be a nurse or a person.

614
00:37:53,180 --> 00:37:54,380
They love to say that.

615
00:37:54,380 --> 00:37:55,980
I don't want to be a nurse or a person.

616
00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:57,180
We hear that all the time.

617
00:37:57,180 --> 00:37:57,420
Yeah.

618
00:37:57,420 --> 00:37:59,420
And I say they're a female nurses.

619
00:37:59,420 --> 00:38:01,420
They're also male nurses.

620
00:38:01,420 --> 00:38:04,380
So, you know, and you don't have to be a nurse.

621
00:38:04,380 --> 00:38:07,900
And the first part, we could talk about that endlessly,

622
00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:10,620
but you're never going to be financially equal.

623
00:38:10,620 --> 00:38:13,980
What you want is somebody who can take care of themselves,

624
00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:18,620
who has a retirement, who's been responsible for themselves financially,

625
00:38:18,620 --> 00:38:22,620
because you're not going to, you're not in a way or you're going to be equal.

626
00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:26,220
And if you wait to find someone equal, it's going to really limit.

627
00:38:26,220 --> 00:38:30,860
If you wait for all, if you make all these requirements,

628
00:38:30,860 --> 00:38:33,260
you are not going to get into a relationship.

629
00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:34,060
Yeah.

630
00:38:34,060 --> 00:38:34,540
Yeah.

631
00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:37,100
You know, just postpone getting into a relationship.

632
00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:37,900
Yeah.

633
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:39,980
And I was reading through the book.

634
00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:45,260
I was beginning to think, well, a lot of the principles and the stories that you share

635
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:52,780
are from a senior's perspective, but those principles can be translated into your 20s and 30s

636
00:38:52,780 --> 00:38:54,380
and 40s all the way through.

637
00:38:54,380 --> 00:38:56,940
A lot of young people have told us that.

638
00:38:56,940 --> 00:39:02,780
It's kind of nice to hear from them saying, hey, these are not just old issues.

639
00:39:02,780 --> 00:39:04,380
They are issues that we can tell.

640
00:39:04,380 --> 00:39:10,140
The one issue that is different is that our chapter on through the bedroom door.

641
00:39:10,140 --> 00:39:13,580
And that is different.

642
00:39:13,580 --> 00:39:14,060
Yeah.

643
00:39:14,060 --> 00:39:15,500
Sexuality is different.

644
00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:20,300
We really, you know, say to people, well, if you want to know more about it, get the book.

645
00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:27,820
So we're not going to go, so we got to go down, you brought it up.

646
00:39:27,820 --> 00:39:30,380
So we got to go down that road just a little bit.

647
00:39:30,380 --> 00:39:31,180
Okay.

648
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:31,980
Okay.

649
00:39:31,980 --> 00:39:39,820
So what is the main difference between when you're 80, you guys said you're 84, correct?

650
00:39:39,820 --> 00:39:41,980
I'm 85 and 25.

651
00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:43,020
You're 25.

652
00:39:43,020 --> 00:39:43,500
Yeah.

653
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:45,180
You want to go to the next one, right?

654
00:39:45,180 --> 00:39:46,460
I mean, yeah.

655
00:39:46,460 --> 00:39:54,140
So what's the difference between sex at 84 and sex at 24?

656
00:39:54,140 --> 00:39:56,300
And I got to tell you a story.

657
00:39:56,300 --> 00:40:05,740
When I was in college, I went to a church in Carvalhoes, Oregon, and they had a visiting preacher

658
00:40:05,740 --> 00:40:07,100
come up to the pulpit.

659
00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:14,220
And he was in his 80s and he was talking about Christians and sex.

660
00:40:14,220 --> 00:40:19,500
And he was approached by the question, well, when does sex end?

661
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:24,700
And he be shaded to tell the story, well, I'm 85.

662
00:40:25,580 --> 00:40:27,820
So it ends sometime after that.

663
00:40:27,820 --> 00:40:35,100
Well, that's really true.

664
00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:41,580
One of the things is that the statistics that I've heard in you,

665
00:40:41,580 --> 00:40:43,180
I think we know those statistics.

666
00:40:43,180 --> 00:40:44,060
Yeah.

667
00:40:44,060 --> 00:40:49,660
That really, in a sense, after 70, there is a high

668
00:40:49,660 --> 00:40:55,420
propensity for people for men to be impudent or have some problems with erections.

669
00:40:55,420 --> 00:40:58,860
So, you know, sex needs to be different.

670
00:40:58,860 --> 00:41:00,700
Connection needs to be different.

671
00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:06,620
And how you make love and what you do in the bedroom is usually a little different.

672
00:41:06,620 --> 00:41:12,780
And if you don't adjust to that, then you may just eliminate it all, which many men do.

673
00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:18,540
I mean, I had men come in in my practice that were talking about, well, I don't, it's too embarrassing.

674
00:41:18,540 --> 00:41:22,300
I certainly can't date now because I can't get an erection.

675
00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:23,500
Yeah, I was going to say everything.

676
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:25,020
And I said, what are you talking about?

677
00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:27,740
I mean, that is an end there.

678
00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:29,660
I mean, don't you like touch?

679
00:41:29,660 --> 00:41:31,900
Don't you enjoy connection?

680
00:41:31,900 --> 00:41:33,100
Don't you enjoy kissing?

681
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:34,380
Don't you enjoy finally?

682
00:41:34,380 --> 00:41:38,060
I mean, where are you in this whole thing?

683
00:41:38,060 --> 00:41:39,820
I mean, what do you really enjoy?

684
00:41:39,820 --> 00:41:44,460
And what are you going to miss out if you just stay away because you can't get an erection?

685
00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:52,940
And is that typical amongst men as opposed to women?

686
00:41:52,940 --> 00:41:57,100
You know, because I think men are more programmed for performance.

687
00:41:57,100 --> 00:41:58,620
Exactly.

688
00:41:58,620 --> 00:42:01,420
And who performs?

689
00:42:01,420 --> 00:42:08,220
The men, it's pretty obvious if you have a soft erection, it's nothing you can hide.

690
00:42:08,220 --> 00:42:13,820
Women can kind of fake it a little more, but they also have drive vaginal areas

691
00:42:13,820 --> 00:42:16,540
and problems with lubrication.

692
00:42:16,540 --> 00:42:24,300
So there are issues that both have and you have to be really honest and be willing to face that.

693
00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:26,780
And you have to find out whether you...

694
00:42:26,780 --> 00:42:28,380
I have a friend who is an example.

695
00:42:28,380 --> 00:42:31,980
And don't forget women can be orgasmic or not at that age also.

696
00:42:31,980 --> 00:42:32,780
Exactly.

697
00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:33,820
And it's an individual.

698
00:42:33,820 --> 00:42:37,020
Yeah, I had a friend who had prostate surgery.

699
00:42:37,020 --> 00:42:43,180
And he was a psychologist and he said, you know, one of the things I was really scared about

700
00:42:43,180 --> 00:42:48,460
was after prostate surgery, would I be able to have an erection in Wedebi?

701
00:42:48,460 --> 00:42:53,420
And then I talked to him three or four months after he got his convalescence done.

702
00:42:53,420 --> 00:42:55,980
He was back and I said, well, how's it going?

703
00:42:55,980 --> 00:42:57,340
I'm what's going on?

704
00:42:57,340 --> 00:42:58,780
And he says, you know what?

705
00:42:58,780 --> 00:43:03,420
We're finding so many better ways to make love now than we used to.

706
00:43:03,420 --> 00:43:05,660
It used to be all about penetration.

707
00:43:05,660 --> 00:43:07,020
And now it's about connection.

708
00:43:07,020 --> 00:43:10,060
Yeah, well said.

709
00:43:10,060 --> 00:43:16,300
I think one of the things that I know about my parents' generation that sex was one of those

710
00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:18,300
topics that you really didn't talk about.

711
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:19,340
Exactly.

712
00:43:19,340 --> 00:43:22,780
And I'm from the baby boomer generation.

713
00:43:22,780 --> 00:43:28,220
And so we were all about free love and openly discussing sex.

714
00:43:28,220 --> 00:43:32,780
And I'm curious how your generation...

715
00:43:32,780 --> 00:43:35,420
I mean, you're at the tail end of the greatest generation.

716
00:43:35,420 --> 00:43:37,100
My mom is in '95.

717
00:43:37,980 --> 00:43:43,340
And my grandmother, I used to take care of my grandmother and my mom's mom.

718
00:43:43,340 --> 00:43:48,620
And my grandfather came to me and says, "Mark, I'm just worn out.

719
00:43:48,620 --> 00:43:51,660
Can you give grandma a shower?"

720
00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:57,020
And I said, "Okay."

721
00:43:57,020 --> 00:44:03,260
He goes, "Just remember, she's very modest."

722
00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:08,060
And that's that generation. She's very modest.

723
00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:11,420
And so I said, "Okay, well, I'll be as discreet as I can."

724
00:44:11,420 --> 00:44:16,620
And he said, "Yeah, she's so modest that she wears a swimming suit to take her own bath."

725
00:44:16,620 --> 00:44:21,420
You know, I mean, that's how modest that generation was.

726
00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:23,820
I mean, they just just didn't talk about it.

727
00:44:23,820 --> 00:44:27,580
They was all about covering up, even within themselves.

728
00:44:27,580 --> 00:44:30,380
I take care of my mom today and she doesn't even care anymore.

729
00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:33,900
She just, you know, I go, "Mom, cover up."

730
00:44:33,900 --> 00:44:34,300
Really?

731
00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:41,660
Yeah, I think that's true. There is a big difference.

732
00:44:41,660 --> 00:44:46,380
But of course, it's individual also, you know, how people feel about it

733
00:44:46,380 --> 00:44:48,860
and how they felt about their sexuality in the past.

734
00:44:48,860 --> 00:44:52,060
I mean, the history of it.

735
00:44:52,060 --> 00:44:56,300
But I have a feeling that there are men who don't date because of their...

736
00:44:56,300 --> 00:44:57,580
All very much so.

737
00:44:57,580 --> 00:45:02,140
And because they feel like, well, my dating years are over.

738
00:45:02,140 --> 00:45:05,260
If I don't have a full erection and that...

739
00:45:05,260 --> 00:45:07,420
That's a big lie, unfortunately.

740
00:45:07,420 --> 00:45:11,420
And I wish more people understood that it's a lie.

741
00:45:11,420 --> 00:45:16,700
I mean, there are so many ways of showing and receiving love.

742
00:45:16,700 --> 00:45:21,500
You don't really have to be so focused on penetration.

743
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:24,940
No, you know, there are things that you can do for shots and...

744
00:45:24,940 --> 00:45:26,220
For some people...

745
00:45:26,220 --> 00:45:28,700
For some people, Viagra works for some people.

746
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:29,180
It doesn't.

747
00:45:29,180 --> 00:45:32,860
Once you've had prostate cancers, it's a pretty hard deal.

748
00:45:32,860 --> 00:45:34,940
But, you know, if you...

749
00:45:34,940 --> 00:45:39,020
I mean, you might want to get shots at person and things like that.

750
00:45:39,020 --> 00:45:41,100
But for some people, that's a pain in the neck.

751
00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:43,100
I mean, there's no spontaneity.

752
00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:44,620
There's no just getting up and...

753
00:45:44,620 --> 00:45:45,900
But there's so much to learn.

754
00:45:45,900 --> 00:45:49,420
Cuttle and kissing and, you know, and fondling each other

755
00:45:49,420 --> 00:45:52,380
and just being close.

756
00:45:52,380 --> 00:45:53,420
Yes.

757
00:45:53,420 --> 00:45:57,660
And really, in a sense, it takes a lot of pressure off it for...

758
00:45:57,660 --> 00:46:02,700
Especially a man, if he knows that he can be loved without having a separate.

759
00:46:02,700 --> 00:46:03,740
Mm-hmm.

760
00:46:03,740 --> 00:46:07,660
So, in other words, what you're saying for the bedroom is...

761
00:46:07,660 --> 00:46:11,740
It's an open book and it's not an end to the chapter.

762
00:46:11,740 --> 00:46:13,340
It can go on.

763
00:46:13,340 --> 00:46:18,060
It takes time to sit down and have serious conversation.

764
00:46:18,060 --> 00:46:23,580
An open conversation, which goes back to your book called "Open to Love."

765
00:46:24,300 --> 00:46:28,940
How did you come up with that title and was this part of some of the impetus behind,

766
00:46:28,940 --> 00:46:32,540
you know, having open conversations with one another

767
00:46:32,540 --> 00:46:34,380
and that love is possible?

768
00:46:34,380 --> 00:46:37,180
Well, Mark, to be open with you.

769
00:46:37,180 --> 00:46:45,260
No, actually, glory as foundation is open to hope.

770
00:46:45,260 --> 00:46:50,140
So, we thought open to love would be the next step.

771
00:46:50,140 --> 00:46:52,300
You know, if indeed you go through grief,

772
00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:56,380
then, in a sense, it doesn't mean the end of things.

773
00:46:56,380 --> 00:47:00,300
Open to love is kind of the next thing.

774
00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:01,100
Yeah.

775
00:47:01,100 --> 00:47:04,140
So, we said, "I like the open part."

776
00:47:04,140 --> 00:47:05,020
Yeah.

777
00:47:05,020 --> 00:47:06,380
Let's do this open to love.

778
00:47:06,380 --> 00:47:07,260
Open to hope.

779
00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:10,140
Our mission is helping people find hope after a death.

780
00:47:10,140 --> 00:47:13,660
And so, open to love is helping people find...

781
00:47:13,660 --> 00:47:17,580
And more than it mits the writing of the third book, which is "Open to Life."

782
00:47:17,580 --> 00:47:21,980
And that is, "Okay, once you find a partner, how do you make it work?"

783
00:47:21,980 --> 00:47:29,420
These issues are sexuality, money, family, friends, caretaking, illness.

784
00:47:29,420 --> 00:47:35,660
We're taking up in the next book that we're writing, which is "Open to Life."

785
00:47:35,660 --> 00:47:43,260
This thing is about being open to love is that you have to just talk into people about,

786
00:47:43,260 --> 00:47:46,700
are you open to a new person in your life?

787
00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:49,180
It's interesting just asking them that,

788
00:47:49,180 --> 00:47:51,580
are you open to a new person in your life?

789
00:47:51,580 --> 00:47:55,020
Just look at you and say, "Oh, I don't know."

790
00:47:55,020 --> 00:47:56,620
That's true.

791
00:47:56,620 --> 00:47:57,500
It's honest.

792
00:47:57,500 --> 00:47:58,300
They don't know.

793
00:47:58,300 --> 00:47:59,500
I think, would I...

794
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:03,740
And it puts them on the trajectory of would I be interested?

795
00:48:03,740 --> 00:48:04,300
Would I not?

796
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:08,060
And if I am, how do I go about it?

797
00:48:08,060 --> 00:48:08,940
Yeah, it's amazing.

798
00:48:08,940 --> 00:48:10,620
And it's not...

799
00:48:10,620 --> 00:48:14,060
You just don't say, "Okay, I'm open to love now."

800
00:48:14,060 --> 00:48:15,740
Where are...

801
00:48:15,740 --> 00:48:17,100
You know, where are the people?

802
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:19,580
I mean, it's a process.

803
00:48:19,580 --> 00:48:20,220
It is.

804
00:48:20,220 --> 00:48:22,380
And, you know, in the first chapter of the book, we say,

805
00:48:22,380 --> 00:48:25,420
you got to start by taking a little inventory.

806
00:48:25,420 --> 00:48:26,460
Who am I now?

807
00:48:26,460 --> 00:48:28,940
What did I like in past relationships?

808
00:48:28,940 --> 00:48:29,900
What didn't I like?

809
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:30,780
What didn't I like?

810
00:48:30,780 --> 00:48:31,340
Start...

811
00:48:31,340 --> 00:48:32,940
You know, have some fun with it.

812
00:48:32,940 --> 00:48:33,500
Start thinking about...

813
00:48:33,500 --> 00:48:33,980
Yeah, okay.

814
00:48:33,980 --> 00:48:34,540
Find out.

815
00:48:34,540 --> 00:48:39,020
I get a profile of the kind of person that would work for you.

816
00:48:39,020 --> 00:48:43,420
And the kind of person that will usually work for you is the successful

817
00:48:43,420 --> 00:48:45,100
pieces of past relationships.

818
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:46,540
So you say, "Yeah, I like that.

819
00:48:46,540 --> 00:48:47,180
I like that.

820
00:48:47,180 --> 00:48:49,020
I like that in relationship."

821
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:51,340
Oh, now I know what I'm looking for.

822
00:48:51,340 --> 00:48:53,340
But you take that information and then you...

823
00:48:53,340 --> 00:48:55,820
If we use it, we like online dating.

824
00:48:55,820 --> 00:49:00,780
The reason we do is because if you want to catch fish,

825
00:49:00,780 --> 00:49:01,740
you go with the fish.

826
00:49:01,740 --> 00:49:02,780
Fish are...

827
00:49:02,780 --> 00:49:03,260
And yeah.

828
00:49:03,260 --> 00:49:04,860
The fish are online dating.

829
00:49:04,860 --> 00:49:06,860
Yeah, it's 50/50 online.

830
00:49:06,860 --> 00:49:08,060
So we don't see them.

831
00:49:08,060 --> 00:49:08,060
We don't see them.

832
00:49:08,060 --> 00:49:08,860
We don't see them.

833
00:49:08,860 --> 00:49:12,140
Much better online because the numbers are better for them.

834
00:49:12,140 --> 00:49:14,220
Well, the motivation is the same.

835
00:49:14,220 --> 00:49:15,500
You're on there because you're looking...

836
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:18,060
And hopefully people are honest

837
00:49:18,060 --> 00:49:21,100
and they're really single and they're looking for a relationship.

838
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:23,900
You've got to be a good consumer if you go online, no.

839
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:29,100
You have to learn how to find out about the person.

840
00:49:29,100 --> 00:49:32,220
And if you have any questions, you can do the e-verify.

841
00:49:32,220 --> 00:49:33,420
You can go on Google.

842
00:49:33,420 --> 00:49:34,860
You can Google them.

843
00:49:34,860 --> 00:49:37,260
You can do a lot of different things.

844
00:49:37,260 --> 00:49:43,100
Why pages to find out about the person that you're thinking about dating?

845
00:49:43,100 --> 00:49:44,860
And you really want to find out.

846
00:49:44,860 --> 00:49:46,700
Are they who they say they are?

847
00:49:46,700 --> 00:49:47,980
And that's the biggest thing.

848
00:49:47,980 --> 00:49:50,780
And we say, under no circumstances,

849
00:49:50,780 --> 00:49:53,740
you ever give money to anybody online.

850
00:49:53,740 --> 00:49:55,900
No matter what the story is.

851
00:49:55,900 --> 00:49:57,100
And you've got to be careful.

852
00:49:57,100 --> 00:49:59,340
You want to meet them as soon as possible

853
00:49:59,340 --> 00:50:01,980
so that you don't fall in love with them online

854
00:50:01,980 --> 00:50:03,980
and then find out it's a scammer.

855
00:50:03,980 --> 00:50:06,540
I mean, I guess it's okay if you like to talk people

856
00:50:06,540 --> 00:50:09,900
to be people on the phone 24/7 or text.

857
00:50:09,900 --> 00:50:12,460
Good for you, but the reality is...

858
00:50:12,460 --> 00:50:13,980
Not a good way to part about it.

859
00:50:13,980 --> 00:50:15,260
If you're really a dating person,

860
00:50:15,260 --> 00:50:18,220
you want to find a partner, cut all that out.

861
00:50:18,220 --> 00:50:21,020
Virtual dating is not the answer.

862
00:50:21,020 --> 00:50:26,300
There's too many ways for people to hide something.

863
00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:28,300
Besides that, you want the chemistry.

864
00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:30,700
Yeah, you want to find it if you like this person.

865
00:50:30,700 --> 00:50:32,940
You know, I'll tell you one thing that really surprised me,

866
00:50:32,940 --> 00:50:36,700
Mark, and that is that you are so silly

867
00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:38,140
when you fall in love with somebody.

868
00:50:38,140 --> 00:50:39,900
It doesn't matter how old you are.

869
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:41,100
You're a teenager, yeah.

870
00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:41,900
You're silly.

871
00:50:41,900 --> 00:50:42,860
You're stupid.

872
00:50:42,860 --> 00:50:45,820
You're... that's really stupid.

873
00:50:45,820 --> 00:50:47,820
And you have to be stupid again.

874
00:50:47,820 --> 00:50:49,420
Yeah, that's part of the fun.

875
00:50:49,420 --> 00:50:51,100
Well, I...

876
00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:52,860
We used to call that when I was in college.

877
00:50:52,860 --> 00:50:55,020
We called it flathead.

878
00:50:55,020 --> 00:51:00,060
So what happens is when you meet a beautiful woman

879
00:51:00,060 --> 00:51:03,180
and all the sudden, all the emotions just,

880
00:51:03,180 --> 00:51:07,500
take over your brain and it presses down

881
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:10,860
to where you can't even think logically anymore.

882
00:51:10,860 --> 00:51:11,340
Yeah.

883
00:51:11,340 --> 00:51:13,500
Well, you know, there's what I like about.

884
00:51:13,500 --> 00:51:16,540
When you sign up for an online dating app,

885
00:51:16,540 --> 00:51:19,100
it changes the chemistry of your brain.

886
00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:21,740
There's a little land in there called the amygdala.

887
00:51:21,740 --> 00:51:25,980
And when the amygdala gets excited, then things happen.

888
00:51:25,980 --> 00:51:27,980
And when you decide you want to date,

889
00:51:27,980 --> 00:51:29,660
you start looking at those pictures.

890
00:51:29,660 --> 00:51:31,420
You get out of your sweats?

891
00:51:31,420 --> 00:51:32,940
You get out of your sweats.

892
00:51:32,940 --> 00:51:36,540
You start going to bars and looking around or rest out.

893
00:51:36,540 --> 00:51:38,620
Suddenly, people see you looking around.

894
00:51:38,620 --> 00:51:40,140
You tell your friends you're dating.

895
00:51:40,140 --> 00:51:40,860
You find out...

896
00:51:40,860 --> 00:51:42,860
Obviously, you're online.

897
00:51:42,860 --> 00:51:46,620
You find out they're online and it can be a party.

898
00:51:46,620 --> 00:51:47,340
Yeah.

899
00:51:47,340 --> 00:51:49,900
What do you say to the daughter or the son that says,

900
00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:51,500
"Mom, what are you doing?

901
00:51:51,500 --> 00:51:52,540
You're too old for this.

902
00:51:52,540 --> 00:51:53,660
You shouldn't be dating."

903
00:51:53,660 --> 00:51:55,180
Oh, man.

904
00:51:55,180 --> 00:51:56,380
We hear that all the time.

905
00:51:56,380 --> 00:51:57,580
Yeah, we heard it from...

906
00:51:57,580 --> 00:51:58,140
For my...

907
00:51:58,140 --> 00:51:58,860
Yes.

908
00:51:58,860 --> 00:51:59,980
Not that you're too old,

909
00:51:59,980 --> 00:52:02,220
but that, frankly, I were going too fast.

910
00:52:02,220 --> 00:52:03,340
And should you be dating?

911
00:52:03,340 --> 00:52:05,100
And, you know, they're all talking about it.

912
00:52:05,100 --> 00:52:07,740
But the double family, you know what I said to him?

913
00:52:07,740 --> 00:52:09,020
I said, "I am old.

914
00:52:09,020 --> 00:52:10,460
I don't have a lot of time."

915
00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:12,940
And basically, the message was, it's none of your business.

916
00:52:12,940 --> 00:52:15,020
Well said.

917
00:52:15,020 --> 00:52:15,500
We'll say...

918
00:52:15,500 --> 00:52:17,340
We'll say, people say,

919
00:52:17,340 --> 00:52:20,060
"Thank you very much for your information, Beth."

920
00:52:20,060 --> 00:52:20,540
Yeah.

921
00:52:20,540 --> 00:52:21,580
I will handle it.

922
00:52:21,580 --> 00:52:22,780
Otherwise, I'm going to handle it.

923
00:52:22,780 --> 00:52:25,740
When I want your opinion, I'll tell it to you.

924
00:52:25,740 --> 00:52:26,380
Yeah, that's right.

925
00:52:26,380 --> 00:52:31,020
However, I did have another friend who got scammed

926
00:52:31,020 --> 00:52:32,860
and she wouldn't listen to her son.

927
00:52:32,860 --> 00:52:35,420
You know, sometimes you do have to listen to the story.

928
00:52:35,420 --> 00:52:36,220
That's the risk...

929
00:52:36,220 --> 00:52:37,660
That's the risk of life.

930
00:52:37,660 --> 00:52:38,860
Yeah, no!

931
00:52:38,860 --> 00:52:40,220
It's a lie.

932
00:52:40,220 --> 00:52:42,540
I have to say it takes care of today.

933
00:52:42,540 --> 00:52:42,940
Yeah.

934
00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:43,740
And after you do it, it does.

935
00:52:43,740 --> 00:52:44,540
It does.

936
00:52:44,540 --> 00:52:47,500
I guess a study who's out there dating a senior or...

937
00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:48,380
Put yourself out there.

938
00:52:48,380 --> 00:52:51,500
In their 30s or 40s, I think you're going to be rejected.

939
00:52:51,500 --> 00:52:52,140
You know, so...

940
00:52:52,140 --> 00:52:53,180
That's part of the...

941
00:52:53,180 --> 00:52:55,260
So we talk about rejection in the book.

942
00:52:55,260 --> 00:52:55,980
Yeah.

943
00:52:55,980 --> 00:52:57,180
And the fact that you've got...

944
00:52:57,180 --> 00:52:57,980
I do handle it.

945
00:52:57,980 --> 00:53:01,580
...that you need to take it as information for your next date.

946
00:53:01,580 --> 00:53:02,460
And it's not...

947
00:53:02,460 --> 00:53:02,940
Yeah.

948
00:53:02,940 --> 00:53:04,940
You know, it just wasn't the right...

949
00:53:04,940 --> 00:53:05,740
Right connect.

950
00:53:05,740 --> 00:53:06,220
Yeah.

951
00:53:06,220 --> 00:53:07,100
And working on that...

952
00:53:07,100 --> 00:53:09,500
What happens when you're 20 or 30, 40?

953
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:12,700
I mean, it's a life of rejection.

954
00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:14,380
So get over it.

955
00:53:14,380 --> 00:53:15,180
Exactly.

956
00:53:15,180 --> 00:53:18,780
But as we get older, we get more afraid in many ways.

957
00:53:18,780 --> 00:53:20,940
Well, especially if you just started dating.

958
00:53:20,940 --> 00:53:21,420
Yeah.

959
00:53:21,420 --> 00:53:23,340
It's a little more vulnerable.

960
00:53:23,340 --> 00:53:26,620
One of the things our friends tell us is...

961
00:53:26,620 --> 00:53:29,660
People that we work with is that...

962
00:53:29,660 --> 00:53:30,780
It takes a lot of time.

963
00:53:30,780 --> 00:53:32,060
And I want to say that it does.

964
00:53:32,060 --> 00:53:32,540
It does.

965
00:53:32,540 --> 00:53:34,860
If you want a date, particularly online,

966
00:53:34,860 --> 00:53:36,860
you need to make a commitment to...

967
00:53:36,860 --> 00:53:40,140
to maybe have some hours...

968
00:53:40,140 --> 00:53:40,300
Yeah.

969
00:53:40,300 --> 00:53:41,260
You're going to do it.

970
00:53:41,260 --> 00:53:42,700
You need to set some goals.

971
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:44,140
How many people will you see?

972
00:53:44,140 --> 00:53:46,300
And one thing that we found is that

973
00:53:46,300 --> 00:53:48,540
you don't want to go into your head alone.

974
00:53:48,540 --> 00:53:50,700
You want to have a dating buddy,

975
00:53:50,700 --> 00:53:52,380
or a dating buddies

976
00:53:52,380 --> 00:53:54,300
that you can talk to about this

977
00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:55,900
and you get support and help.

978
00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:57,180
And a lot of times,

979
00:53:57,180 --> 00:53:59,500
grandkids are great dating guys.

980
00:53:59,500 --> 00:54:01,020
Yeah, your kids won't be but your grandkids.

981
00:54:01,020 --> 00:54:01,980
Your grandkids will.

982
00:54:01,980 --> 00:54:02,860
Think it's fun.

983
00:54:02,860 --> 00:54:03,660
Yeah, they think it's...

984
00:54:03,660 --> 00:54:04,860
They'll help you set up your web.

985
00:54:04,860 --> 00:54:06,860
They'll go to the web.

986
00:54:06,860 --> 00:54:08,220
They can help you out.

987
00:54:08,220 --> 00:54:09,500
I mean, they're not going to stay with you

988
00:54:09,500 --> 00:54:10,620
for the whole thing.

989
00:54:10,620 --> 00:54:11,100
Yeah.

990
00:54:11,100 --> 00:54:13,020
Just to get you started.

991
00:54:13,020 --> 00:54:14,380
And then you start talking about it.

992
00:54:14,380 --> 00:54:16,700
You'll find out that your friends have been dating

993
00:54:16,700 --> 00:54:19,420
or people that you'll find out.

994
00:54:19,420 --> 00:54:23,260
Yeah, but dating buddies are really important to success.

995
00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:25,660
Yeah, because you get this courage.

996
00:54:25,660 --> 00:54:26,140
Yeah.

997
00:54:26,140 --> 00:54:27,260
You need a supporter.

998
00:54:27,260 --> 00:54:29,580
Yeah, and you can go through the pictures together

999
00:54:29,580 --> 00:54:29,820
and help them.

1000
00:54:29,820 --> 00:54:32,940
And have fun and talk about dating experiences

1001
00:54:32,940 --> 00:54:33,980
that you've got.

1002
00:54:33,980 --> 00:54:35,420
And there's somebody.

1003
00:54:35,420 --> 00:54:36,860
There's somebody if you do break up,

1004
00:54:36,860 --> 00:54:38,460
you can call them at 10 o'clock at night.

1005
00:54:38,460 --> 00:54:39,260
Exactly.

1006
00:54:39,260 --> 00:54:40,220
And people tell us,

1007
00:54:40,220 --> 00:54:41,180
"Their up is great."

1008
00:54:41,180 --> 00:54:41,900
We've done that.

1009
00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:43,100
We've coached people as they're...

1010
00:54:43,100 --> 00:54:43,980
Yeah, but...

1011
00:54:43,980 --> 00:54:46,140
But you're not there to go through the pictures

1012
00:54:46,140 --> 00:54:47,100
with them all the time.

1013
00:54:47,100 --> 00:54:48,540
Or say, "Hey, did you just...

1014
00:54:48,540 --> 00:54:49,820
guy or this woman online,

1015
00:54:49,820 --> 00:54:51,100
what do you think?"

1016
00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:52,460
And then it's not the funny stories.

1017
00:54:52,460 --> 00:54:54,460
I mean, they can't tell us the funny stories they do.

1018
00:54:54,460 --> 00:54:58,460
So we're coming up against the end of our time together.

1019
00:54:58,460 --> 00:54:58,940
But...

1020
00:54:58,940 --> 00:54:59,980
Oh, we're just...

1021
00:54:59,980 --> 00:55:01,420
Oh, see how fast it goes.

1022
00:55:01,420 --> 00:55:03,900
I mean, we haven't even gotten into

1023
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:04,940
the details of the book.

1024
00:55:04,940 --> 00:55:07,900
So here's what I want to do is...

1025
00:55:07,900 --> 00:55:10,620
give us an overview of your book.

1026
00:55:10,620 --> 00:55:14,060
Because it's a compilation of a lot of years

1027
00:55:14,060 --> 00:55:16,380
of knowledge and wisdom.

1028
00:55:16,380 --> 00:55:19,980
And I love the wisdom part of which you brought to the book.

1029
00:55:19,980 --> 00:55:22,540
But the second half of your title is

1030
00:55:22,540 --> 00:55:24,140
"The Secret to Senior Dating."

1031
00:55:24,140 --> 00:55:25,900
What's the secret?

1032
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:30,060
Well, I think one of the biggest secrets is

1033
00:55:30,060 --> 00:55:33,100
we've said you got to make commitment.

1034
00:55:33,100 --> 00:55:35,100
Well, one of the things is you got to do it now.

1035
00:55:35,100 --> 00:55:36,780
You got to get yourself out there.

1036
00:55:36,780 --> 00:55:39,420
You got to get the courage to say, "Hey, look,

1037
00:55:39,420 --> 00:55:41,420
I don't want to be alone,

1038
00:55:41,420 --> 00:55:45,660
and this is the way that I need to find someone."

1039
00:55:45,660 --> 00:55:46,860
And I'm willing to take a risk.

1040
00:55:46,860 --> 00:55:48,940
And I'm nearly take a risk and get out there.

1041
00:55:48,940 --> 00:55:52,220
And we show you in the book how you can create your profiles online

1042
00:55:52,220 --> 00:55:55,500
and things kind of building up from the beginning of the book.

1043
00:55:55,500 --> 00:55:56,860
You're looking at what you want.

1044
00:55:56,860 --> 00:55:59,420
And then you write that into your profile

1045
00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:02,060
so that there are certain things that you can

1046
00:56:02,060 --> 00:56:06,060
do to enhance your chances of finding that reason.

1047
00:56:06,060 --> 00:56:08,540
And I think one of the things that I love about the book

1048
00:56:08,540 --> 00:56:11,660
after writing it and rereading it.

1049
00:56:11,660 --> 00:56:14,140
Because it's interesting to write a book and then reread it.

1050
00:56:14,140 --> 00:56:17,900
Oh, I said that.

1051
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:19,100
Oh, that's not bad.

1052
00:56:19,100 --> 00:56:20,540
I'm not right about that.

1053
00:56:20,540 --> 00:56:22,300
Well, it's kind of fun to do.

1054
00:56:22,300 --> 00:56:26,700
One of the things that I really liked about the book

1055
00:56:26,700 --> 00:56:28,940
is that we really talk about real issues

1056
00:56:28,940 --> 00:56:30,700
of dating at this point in our life.

1057
00:56:30,700 --> 00:56:33,580
And like you said, these are some issues

1058
00:56:33,580 --> 00:56:37,260
that are through dating all the way from 30 on.

1059
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:43,580
And don't give up and be a good consumer.

1060
00:56:43,580 --> 00:56:44,060
Yes.

1061
00:56:44,060 --> 00:56:47,180
And get a dating buddy if you're going to get in the business.

1062
00:56:47,180 --> 00:56:49,340
Yeah, absolutely dating buddies and have fun.

1063
00:56:49,340 --> 00:56:50,860
Yes, enjoy it.

1064
00:56:50,860 --> 00:56:51,660
We certainly have.

1065
00:56:51,660 --> 00:56:55,340
And one of the things I like about the book too is Frank speaks

1066
00:56:55,340 --> 00:56:56,380
in his own voice.

1067
00:56:56,380 --> 00:56:57,980
And then I speak in my own voice.

1068
00:56:57,980 --> 00:57:00,780
Because I've learned a lot from Frank, what men think.

1069
00:57:00,780 --> 00:57:05,820
I love our little emojis that was done by cartoonists,

1070
00:57:05,820 --> 00:57:08,860
where it's glorious emoji.

1071
00:57:08,860 --> 00:57:10,620
And then she has her talk.

1072
00:57:10,620 --> 00:57:11,260
I'm my take on it.

1073
00:57:11,260 --> 00:57:12,300
And I have my little emoji.

1074
00:57:12,300 --> 00:57:16,620
I think that's one of the things I enjoyed about the read

1075
00:57:16,620 --> 00:57:20,540
as well is that I knew who was speaking when,

1076
00:57:20,540 --> 00:57:22,460
because of the way you guys laid it out.

1077
00:57:22,460 --> 00:57:25,420
And it was really good to get the different perspectives.

1078
00:57:25,420 --> 00:57:29,340
I think we're men, so we think a lot of like.

1079
00:57:29,340 --> 00:57:32,860
But it's also nice to hear how a woman thinks.

1080
00:57:32,860 --> 00:57:35,660
And especially at the age of 85,

1081
00:57:35,660 --> 00:57:41,580
how do you think differently than a man at 85?

1082
00:57:41,580 --> 00:57:43,980
Or it doesn't matter the age.

1083
00:57:43,980 --> 00:57:47,420
I mean, just women are just thinking different than guys.

1084
00:57:47,420 --> 00:57:48,060
Yes.

1085
00:57:48,060 --> 00:57:50,060
Yeah, I think that's really important.

1086
00:57:50,060 --> 00:57:52,060
And so many books are written by women

1087
00:57:53,020 --> 00:57:57,580
that on relationships that I really learned so much from her

1088
00:57:57,580 --> 00:57:58,780
that I didn't even know.

1089
00:57:58,780 --> 00:58:03,260
Even after 40 years of doing therapy and being 80 years old,

1090
00:58:03,260 --> 00:58:05,580
I still learned some things about women from her

1091
00:58:05,580 --> 00:58:06,460
that I didn't know.

1092
00:58:06,460 --> 00:58:08,780
As we wrote the book, it was wonderful.

1093
00:58:08,780 --> 00:58:12,460
My main thing that I learned is why men day under women.

1094
00:58:12,460 --> 00:58:15,820
I thought it was because they were just hot.

1095
00:58:15,820 --> 00:58:18,700
And Frank tells me no, it's because they want other guys

1096
00:58:18,700 --> 00:58:20,940
to see they still got a hot woman on it.

1097
00:58:21,180 --> 00:58:22,940
Yeah.

1098
00:58:22,940 --> 00:58:24,940
Yeah.

1099
00:58:24,940 --> 00:58:26,220
Arm candy, they call that.

1100
00:58:26,220 --> 00:58:27,180
Arm candy.

1101
00:58:27,180 --> 00:58:28,540
Yeah, look what I can do.

1102
00:58:28,540 --> 00:58:31,660
I'm not so old, look at it.

1103
00:58:31,660 --> 00:58:32,460
Yeah.

1104
00:58:32,460 --> 00:58:32,460
Yeah.

1105
00:58:32,460 --> 00:58:36,380
Oh, that's great stuff.

1106
00:58:36,380 --> 00:58:37,260
That's great stuff.

1107
00:58:37,260 --> 00:58:41,020
So for those that want to pick up a copy of the book,

1108
00:58:41,020 --> 00:58:42,460
where's the best way to get it?

1109
00:58:42,460 --> 00:58:44,300
And then also, do you have a website?

1110
00:58:44,300 --> 00:58:48,700
So let's say, do you talk with seniors

1111
00:58:48,700 --> 00:58:52,300
or with children of seniors,

1112
00:58:52,300 --> 00:58:55,740
conversing with addressing some of the challenges

1113
00:58:55,740 --> 00:58:57,340
that they face in the dating scene?

1114
00:58:57,340 --> 00:59:00,460
Well, you'll find at thegoldandateanddoctor.com,

1115
00:59:00,460 --> 00:59:05,980
thegoldandate.com, you will find a lot of snippets

1116
00:59:05,980 --> 00:59:07,980
and things that we've done online,

1117
00:59:07,980 --> 00:59:10,460
answering questions, and all that kind of thing.

1118
00:59:10,460 --> 00:59:10,940
And then--

1119
00:59:10,940 --> 00:59:11,900
That's good information.

1120
00:59:11,900 --> 00:59:12,140
Yeah.

1121
00:59:12,140 --> 00:59:14,860
And then the book can be bought on Amazon.

1122
00:59:14,860 --> 00:59:16,220
We'd love to have you buy the book.

1123
00:59:16,220 --> 00:59:17,980
And if we like it, we hope you'll give it a--

1124
00:59:17,980 --> 00:59:21,660
There's an audio book where we actually--

1125
00:59:21,660 --> 00:59:23,020
We read the book.

1126
00:59:23,020 --> 00:59:26,060
I read my sections, and she reads her sections,

1127
00:59:26,060 --> 00:59:29,260
and then we trade off reading the center part of it.

1128
00:59:29,260 --> 00:59:30,940
We have a lot of fun with the audio book.

1129
00:59:30,940 --> 00:59:33,260
It was actually-- it was all had a work,

1130
00:59:33,260 --> 00:59:36,540
but it came how much better than I thought.

1131
00:59:36,540 --> 00:59:39,180
And we're on Instagram, social media,

1132
00:59:39,180 --> 00:59:40,940
the Golden Dating Doctors.

1133
00:59:40,940 --> 00:59:42,460
You can see us playing pickleball.

1134
00:59:42,460 --> 00:59:43,260
Yes.

1135
00:59:43,260 --> 00:59:43,820
Nice.

1136
00:59:43,820 --> 00:59:47,100
All right.

1137
00:59:47,100 --> 00:59:50,060
Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Frank Powers,

1138
00:59:50,060 --> 00:59:52,460
thank you so much for being on Aging today.

1139
00:59:52,460 --> 00:59:53,580
It was a pleasure.

1140
00:59:53,580 --> 00:59:54,620
It was a delight.

1141
00:59:54,620 --> 00:59:57,980
It was filled with laughter and wisdom.

1142
00:59:57,980 --> 00:59:59,420
And I say thank you.

1143
00:59:59,420 --> 01:00:00,780
That's--

1144
01:00:00,780 --> 01:00:01,740
Thanks for having us on, Mark.

1145
01:00:01,740 --> 01:00:02,380
Yes.

1146
01:00:02,380 --> 01:00:02,540
Great.

1147
01:00:02,540 --> 01:00:06,380
Keep reaching out, touching the lives of seniors out there.

1148
01:00:06,380 --> 01:00:08,380
And you're not just touching seniors.

1149
01:00:08,380 --> 01:00:09,260
You are touching--

1150
01:00:09,260 --> 01:00:11,740
It's a multi-generational book.

1151
01:00:11,740 --> 01:00:12,940
And it's about dating.

1152
01:00:12,940 --> 01:00:15,420
It's about living, you know,

1153
01:00:15,420 --> 01:00:17,660
how we interrelate with one another.

1154
01:00:17,660 --> 01:00:21,740
Families interrelating with their moms and dads

1155
01:00:21,740 --> 01:00:26,540
and validating everything that we're doing as human beings.

1156
01:00:26,540 --> 01:00:27,340
Love it.

1157
01:00:27,340 --> 01:00:28,060
Oh, great.

1158
01:00:28,060 --> 01:00:28,220
Thank you.

1159
01:00:28,220 --> 01:00:29,020
Thank you.

1160
01:00:29,020 --> 01:00:30,860
I can't wait for the third book to come out.

1161
01:00:30,860 --> 01:00:31,740
Let's get you on.

1162
01:00:31,740 --> 01:00:32,700
And either.

1163
01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:33,420
Yeah.

1164
01:00:33,420 --> 01:00:33,900
All right.

1165
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:35,420
Did you start it?

1166
01:00:35,420 --> 01:00:37,580
Did you start the book?

1167
01:00:37,580 --> 01:00:38,060
Yeah.

1168
01:00:38,060 --> 01:00:38,460
Oh, yeah.

1169
01:00:38,460 --> 01:00:39,420
It's a third done.

1170
01:00:39,420 --> 01:00:40,780
Second book, yeah.

1171
01:00:40,780 --> 01:00:41,260
Second?

1172
01:00:41,260 --> 01:00:42,380
Third done.

1173
01:00:42,380 --> 01:00:42,860
Yeah.

1174
01:00:42,860 --> 01:00:44,220
We have to have a workbook.

1175
01:00:44,220 --> 01:00:46,700
I have to laugh because we're still living it.

1176
01:00:46,700 --> 01:00:47,900
Yeah.

1177
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:49,500
We can get a new chapter.

1178
01:00:49,500 --> 01:00:50,380
Oh, my God.

1179
01:00:50,380 --> 01:00:51,340
Yes.

1180
01:00:51,340 --> 01:00:52,140
Nice.

1181
01:00:52,140 --> 01:00:52,460
All right.

1182
01:00:52,460 --> 01:00:53,500
We'll keep it going.

1183
01:00:53,500 --> 01:00:54,940
We'll have you back, for sure.

1184
01:00:54,940 --> 01:00:55,260
Thank you.

1185
01:00:55,260 --> 01:00:55,980
Thank you.

1186
01:00:55,980 --> 01:00:56,700
All right.

1187
01:00:56,700 --> 01:00:58,300
This is Mark Turnbull, your host.

1188
01:00:58,300 --> 01:01:02,300
And I want to thank all of you for tuning into Aging Today.

1189
01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:04,540
We are the podcast where together,

1190
01:01:04,540 --> 01:01:08,380
we're exploring the many options to Aging on your terms.

1191
01:01:08,380 --> 01:01:11,900
Join us every Monday when we release a new conversation

1192
01:01:11,900 --> 01:01:14,940
on Aging Today, do your favorite podcast channel.

1193
01:01:14,940 --> 01:01:16,620
And remember this.

1194
01:01:16,620 --> 01:01:19,100
We're all in the process of Aging.

1195
01:01:19,100 --> 01:01:22,700
And as we age, we really are better together.

1196
01:01:22,700 --> 01:01:24,060
So stay young at heart.

1197
01:01:24,060 --> 01:01:25,180
[MUSIC PLAYING]

1198
01:01:25,180 --> 01:01:28,300
You make me feel so young.

1199
01:01:28,300 --> 01:01:31,420
You make me feel like spring has sprung.

1200
01:01:31,420 --> 01:01:37,660
And every time I see your face, I'm such a happy individual

1201
01:01:37,660 --> 01:01:40,780
the moment that you speak.

1202
01:01:40,780 --> 01:01:43,900
I want to go play hide and see.

1203
01:01:43,900 --> 01:01:49,420
I want to go and bounce the moon just like a toy balloon.

1204
01:01:49,420 --> 01:01:59,180
Well, you and I, I'll just like a bulletots running across the metal.

1205
01:01:59,180 --> 01:02:05,820
Big enough lots of forget me nights so you made me feel so young.

1206
01:02:05,820 --> 01:02:08,540
You make me feel there are songs to be sung.

1207
01:02:08,540 --> 01:02:13,740
There will still be room and one of the things to be fun.

1208
01:02:13,740 --> 01:02:15,820
And when I'm old and grey.

1209
01:02:15,820 --> 01:02:19,020
You've been listening to Aging Today, where together,

1210
01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:22,460
we explore the options to Aging on your terms.

1211
01:02:22,460 --> 01:02:26,060
Join Mark and his guest next week for another lively discussion

1212
01:02:26,060 --> 01:02:29,980
on proactively Aging on your terms, connecting you

1213
01:02:29,980 --> 01:02:33,100
to the professional advice of his special guests

1214
01:02:33,100 --> 01:02:35,100
with the goal of creating better days

1215
01:02:35,100 --> 01:02:37,020
throughout the aging process.

1216
01:02:37,020 --> 01:02:39,340
Your host has been Mark Turnbull.

1217
01:02:39,340 --> 01:02:42,380
Join Mark and his guest every week on Aging Today,

1218
01:02:42,380 --> 01:02:46,860
your podcast to exploring your options for Aging on your terms.

1219
01:02:46,860 --> 01:02:49,900
And you and I will be grey.

1220
01:02:49,900 --> 01:02:53,740
You make me feel the way I feel today.

1221
01:02:53,740 --> 01:02:57,660
'Cause you make me feel so.

1222
01:02:57,660 --> 01:03:00,860
You make me feel so.

1223
01:03:00,860 --> 01:03:06,300
You make me feel so young.

1224
01:03:06,300 --> 01:03:08,620
So young.

1225
01:03:08,620 --> 01:03:11,740
You make me feel so young.

1226
01:03:11,740 --> 01:03:16,540
You make me feel so young.

1227
01:03:16,540 --> 01:03:41,400
[Music]